Q. Now, I think you stated to your own defense counsel that it was impossible for you to conclude from this report that experiments had been carried out, but rather, you thought they were clinical observations made on people fished out of the North Sea, is that right?
A. Yes, I based my testimony solely on the Holzloehner report which was the only thing that interested me. There were reports by Rose and others but I did not read them. I glanced through them briefly but gave no further attention to them because I did not know the people who had drawn them up.
Q. Let’s just look briefly at one or two points here and see if they might not indicate to you, if you thought about it a little bit, that these were really experiments and not clinical observations on people who accidentally fell into the sea. For instance, on page 11 of the translation it states as follows:
“The rapidity with which numbness occurs is remarkable. It was determined that already 5 to 10 minutes after falling in, an advancing rigor of the skeletal muscles sets in, which renders the movement of the arms especially increasingly difficult. This also affects respiration. Inspiration is deepened, and expiration is delayed. Besides this, heavy mucous secretions occur.”
Now, when you read that little paragraph about a man who had been in the water 5 to 10 minutes where it is said that he had rigor of the skeletal muscles, where his inspiration is deepened and his expiration is delayed and where there is a heavy mucous secretion, did you imagine that they had Dr. Holzloehner in a lifeboat in the North Sea making these observations on some aviator who had fallen in accidentally? Did you think that, General?
A. Yes, that’s what I thought. You don’t know the local situation at Visson. There were a beach and dunes, and a guard from the rescue station always stood on the dunes to keep an eye on the water and the surrounding country, particularly when flights to England were taking place, so that it actually did happen that fliers bailed out and fell into the water just in front of the shoreline. Rescue boats were ready at that time and went out to sea immediately, so that it was altogether possible that fliers who fell into the water close to the coast could very quickly be observed and rescued. These are the facts of what actually took place at that rescue station at that time.
Q. On the same page they have this remark: “With the drop of the rectal temperature to 31°, a clouding of consciousness occurs, which passes to a deep, cold-induced anaesthesia if the decline reaches below 30°.”
Now, do you suppose that they pulled this aviator in and inserted a rectal thermometer and found his temperature at 31° and then tossed him back and let it drop another degree, all the time watching closely a clouding of consciousness, and then hauled him back in when it was 30° and noted a deep, cold-induced anaesthesia?
A. No, that isn’t the correct way to put it either. This is one of the observations that was new to us and to which we paid a great deal of attention in order to explain these incomprehensible fatalities, namely, the fact that when the people were removed from the water their temperature still dropped and simultaneously with the drop in temperature a fatal collapse of the heart occurred. This was one of our fundamental and new observations. And I must report again and again that this rescue house was a small place, but it did have the apparatus for observing these people very exactly. That was the sense of the whole thing.
Q. General, you’ve already covered yourself a little bit by saying you didn’t read these discussions after Holzloehner’s lecture very carefully; but I want to read you the one by Rascher, in any event, and see if you won’t admit that if you had read this little comment by Rascher that there could have been no doubt whatsoever in your mind that experiments were carried out and not observations on aviators in the North Sea. This is on page 15 of the translation, and Rascher has said: