Q. I now show you Mrugowsky 9 and I put it in as Mrugowsky Exhibit 23. It is a photostat of a paper by Dr. Ding on the protective action of various vaccines on human beings and the course of typhus after immunization. I do not wish to read the document but simply desire to bring it to the attention of the Tribunal. Would you care to make any statement about the inadequate way in which this diary was worked on? Would you like to say that perhaps Ding was not in a position to carry on such work?
A. This paper is 13 pages long. First, there is the manner of the patient’s tolerance for the vaccine, then the individual points which I just mentioned as the consequences of the protective vaccination are gone into. Tables are presented which give statistics in these matters. There are eight sketches giving graphs showing the results; and at the very bottom on the next to the last page, in the next to the last paragraph, there are three lines which say that the fatalities in the cases of those vaccinated were fewer in number than among those not vaccinated. That is all mentioned in the summary—there is a final summary. This is also an indication that he was perfectly capable of carrying on scientific work. I should like to point out that at the top of this paper it is mentioned that this work was done in my institute in Berlin. I say that as an indication that I laid no stress on keeping these matters secret in any way or that it was my point of view that these experimental results which had been achieved on the most expensive of all material, namely, human beings, should be carried through to conclusion and that results should be made available to all who are interested.
Q. The prosecution also charges you with the fact that Ding infected persons in Buchenwald who had not previously received the protective vaccination. Would you like to make a statement on that subject?
A. The following cases come into question here on the basis of Ding’s diary entries. First of all, there are the so-called “preliminary experiments”. In Document NO-265, four such preparatory experiments are mentioned on nonvaccinated persons. These were done in order to ascertain what method was possible in order to artificially infect human beings with typhus. I always found that the lay person who had never concerned himself with these matters assumes it to be a matter of course that it is always possible to infect a human being with a disease. That, however, is by no means the case. Even in the case of such a toxic material as the typhus germ, successful infection can only occur if it is not directed directly into the blood stream. Unless another way is chosen, it is usually impossible to bring about infection with such a disease. Consequently, when such experiments are to be carried out on human beings—and this is a point of view which I express without any reference to my own person—then such preliminary experiments cannot be dispensed with. The second case is the so-called “controlled cases”.
Q. Did you know anything of these preliminary experiments?
A. No. I found out about them only through the diary.
Q. Ding says in his diary under the 20th of February 1942: “Case histories and curves on the preliminary experiments were sent to Berlin.” Did you receive this report?
A. No. Nor do I believe Ding sent it to me, because he was not subordinate to me in these experiments and it seems, therefore, more probable to me that he sent them to Grawitz. I, at any rate, did not see them.
Q. How can this be reconciled with your letter of 5 May 1942 to Conti and others which I put into evidence this morning as Mrugowsky 10, Mrugowsky Exhibit 20?
A. This letter corroborates what I have just testified to, because the report on this series of experiments was sent to Grawitz, and I received Ding’s report to Grawitz from Grawitz himself with the order to rewrite it in a suitable form, since Grawitz did not wish outside persons to be able to see, without any further trouble to themselves, that these were really experiments on human beings with artificial infection. He knew that, to some extent, I could master the style which he used in his official communications, whereas he did not know whether Ding could or not. Consequently, he commissioned me to take Ding’s original report and to cast it in a suitable form for the purpose of making communications to the manufacturing firm. This I did, and the result is this document dated 5 May 1942.