And Number 6: “The animal experiments according to Otto proved: (a) the harmlessness and (b) the effectiveness or insufficient effectiveness.”
It stated previously, “the question of whether the animals showed a positive reaction is incomprehensible.” It stated also that animal experiments were carried out in the Behring Works. I submit this document to prove these were not vaccines which had not been previously tested, but were vaccines which had gone through the necessary preliminary and effective testing. Do you remember Kogon’s testimony that volunteers were used in the first two series of experiments? This testimony is on page 1,162 of the English transcript and on page 1,197 of the German transcript. If we base our assumptions on Ding’s diary, what two series of experiments must these have been for which volunteers were used?
A. If we base our statements on Ding’s diary we can only consider that these two series were, first of all, the preliminary series A which began on 5 January, and the first series of vaccine experiments with 145 persons regarding which the letter of 5 May 1942 that was previously read concerns itself. (Mrugowsky 10, Mrugowsky Ex. 20.) This series began on the next day, namely, on 6 January 1942. Any other experiments took place at a later date. Thus, when Kogon says that two series of experiments were carried out with volunteers, it can only be these two series of experiments.
Q. The experiments with which the letter of 5 May concerned itself were carried out on volunteers?
A. Apparently they were.
Q. Can you remember the communication of 11 April 1943 to the effect that the Mateska serum could no longer be used for experiments?
A. No, I don’t remember that and I consider it out of the question that I ever received any such communication. In all bacteriology, particularly in virology, there have been efforts for centuries to breed live germs which are no longer pathogenic (which do not infect human beings), in order to use these live germs for the manufacture of vaccine, namely vaccines with live attenuated strains, because these are a complete protection against the disease.
Q. In other words, you want to say that if you had received this communication, you would have seen to it that further experiments were carried out with this serum which was no longer so virulent?
A. I should not like to put it quite that way, but I should certainly have contacted the person whose institute had developed this strain, that was the Robert Koch Institute, Professor Gildemeister. However, I never spoke to him about this matter, and I should like to believe that he found nothing out about this matter because Gildemeister was one of our best virus researchers and was very familiar with the value such a really unique occurrence would have had.
Q. Did you see reports on the C and D series of experiments concerning the discovery of a safe method of infection, which were said to have taken place on the 11th and 13th of April?