A. No. At that time he had concluded the experimental series number VII with Asid vaccines as I can see from this document. This was a series which had a number of fatalities as its result. It is in line with Ding’s character that he did not speak to me about such a series of experiments, since he knew what my basic attitude towards this question was.
Q. Didn’t you discuss the typhus experiments with Ding on the occasion of your visit?
A. No. We didn’t discuss that matter. Our conversation merely dealt with the work carried on in Block 50 for the production of vaccine, which was really the purpose of my visit. I think we discussed a number of other hygienic questions concerning the vicinity of Buchenwald. I knew that there was a lack of water there from my previous activity; and I am sure that this was a subject which was discussed. I spent the evening with Ding in his flat where I met Dr. Hoven, the camp physician of Buchenwald, and his wife. Mrs. Ding was there, too. It is a matter of course that we didn’t discuss any technical questions in that circle. We certainly did not speak about any experiments on human beings.
In this connection I may perhaps say that this was the only time that I saw Hoven, who was allegedly Ding’s representative. This was ten days before Hoven had to end his activity as a camp physician in Buchenwald.
Q. Were you of the opinion that the typhus experimental series had been concluded?
A. Yes. I held that opinion, since it becomes evident from the documents here that the experimental series of that time had not led to any disease. The reason was that the strain coming from the Robert Koch Institute was not pathogenic. Ding did not say that he sent any reports to Berlin about it; and I, therefore, did not know anything about the way he worked in Buchenwald as far as it did not concern Block 50. I was of the opinion that after the second series of experiments, which was concluded at the end of 1942, no further experiments were planned.
Q. Well, if you believed that the typhus experiments had been concluded, the main activity of Dr. Ding would also have had to come to a conclusion?
A. No. That is not the case. Seen from my point of view, he was a bacteriologist; and I was anxiously awaiting the end of this special mission by Grawitz when Ding would again be fully at my disposal. At that time, in 1943, he had to carry out the preparations for vaccine production at Buchenwald. Therefore, the building work had to be supervised. Block 50 was a bacteriological institute furnished in a very modern style with a number of special pieces of equipment. Animals had to be obtained and accommodation made ready for them. There was not only one kind of animal but four different kinds. It was necessary to obtain fodder for them. Then a number of other organizational activities were necessary, which made Ding’s stay in Buchenwald absolutely necessary.
Q. Ding maintains that he sent a report about the series number VIII of the typhus experiments. Did you see that in Berlin? It was to have been sent on the 13th of June 1944.
A. Well, I heard about this series of experiments only by looking at the document here. I hadn’t seen or heard of it before.