A. Yes. I personally was not in charge of this action. My chief was in charge. But as far as I know no excesses were committed by the nursing personnel. Of course, some of the obstinate patients refused to enter the busses. That is natural.
Q. Were these all extreme cases which were sent for under this Euthanasia Program?
A. Of course, it depends where the limit is drawn. One can maintain the view that a large part of the patients, perhaps, might have undergone a certain change through modern shock treatment or some other modern method of treatment. But with those cases there in which the mental disease was in a very advanced stage, in my opinion, most of the patients no longer had any chance to enjoy life.
EXTRACTS FROM THE TESTIMONY OF DEFENDANT KARL BRANDT[[118]]
DIRECT EXAMINATION
Dr. Servatius: Witness, you are charged with participation in the Euthanasia Program. I shall show you the decree of 1 December [1 September] 1939. (NO-630, Pros. Ex. 330.) Please describe how this decree came about.
Defendant Karl Brandt: After the end of the Polish campaign in about October [sic], the Fuehrer was at Obersalzberg. I was called to him for some reason which I can no longer remember and he told me that because of a document which he had received from Reichsleiter Bouhler, he wanted to bring about a definite solution in the euthanasia question. He gave me general directives on how he imagined it, and the fundamentals were that insane persons who were in such a condition that they could no longer take any conscious part in life were to be given relief through death. General instructions followed about petitions which he himself had received, and he told me to contact Bouhler himself about the matter. I did so by telephone on the same day, and I then informed Hitler about my conversation with Bouhler. Thereupon he drafted a formulation of this decree, not in the form we have here, but in a similar form, and certain changes were made. My request was that a precaution be introduced because of the medical participation, and I used an expression for this which was familiar to me from expert opinions. It stated that euthanasia could be carried out on persons and then comes the formulation “who are incurable with a probability bordering on certainty.” Since this formulation was strange to him, “on the most careful diagnosis of their condition of sickness” was added. Therefore, when this decree was signed about the end of October, the text read as follows: “Reichsleiter Bouhler and Dr. Brandt are charged with the responsibility of extending the authority of certain doctors, to be designated by name in such a manner that persons who, according to human judgment, are incurably sick, can, on the most careful diagnosis of their condition of sickness, be accorded a mercy death.”
Q. Did you talk to Bouhler?
A. At first I only talked to Bouhler on the telephone and even after the decree was signed I did not talk to him immediately but sent the signed decree to him in Berlin.