A. Yes.
Q. Witness, you used the expression “demoniac order”. What do you mean by that?
A. By demoniac order I mean the following: If I define as a basis for medical activity merely the maintenance and safeguarding of the substance of the nation according to blood, the result is that everything which falls outside this pretense has to be cleared away. That is a mild expression of what actually happened, namely, extermination.
Q. Then your demoniac order only refers to the blood aspect. Could it not be applied to the purely state collective aspect as well?
A. Could you give an example so that I can understand it better?
Q. I mean that experiments were undertaken and that the voluntary act of the individual is replaced by the act of the state, namely, by the voluntary approval given by the state.
A. Between the collective idea and the state order on the one hand and the medical individual on the other, there stands something rather important—the human conscience.
Q. Professor, if all these experiments were actually conducted, and also as you said this morning and as Moll’s book shows, Moll alone published approximately six hundred works about thousands of such experiments (on human beings), must one not say that wide circles of medical men judge the question of experiments on human beings under certain conditions differently from you—from an ethical point of view?
A. That I cannot say, because even Moll writes at the end of this work that it is part of a physician’s morals to restrain his urge for natural research in favor of the basic medical attitude as laid down in the oath of Hippocrates, namely, to cause no arbitrary harm to his patient.