Governor Bradford's first dialogue

by William Bradford

To which we may add, that it is very injurious to call those after his name, whose person they never knew, and whose writings few if any of them ever saw, and whose errors and back-slidings they have constantly borne witness against; and what truths they have received have been from the light of God’s sacred word, conveyed by other godly instruments unto them; though Brown may sometimes have professed some of the same things, and now fallen from the same, as many others have done.

Young men.—Seeing we have presumed thus far to inquire into these ancienter times of you, and of the sufferings of the aforesaid persons, we would likewise entreat you, though never so briefly, to tell us something of the persons and carriages of other eminent men about those times, or immediately after, as Mr. Francis Johnson, Mr. Henry Ainsworth, Mr. John Smith, Mr. John Robinson, Mr. Richard Clifton.

Ancient men.—Here are some in the company that knew them all familiarly, whom we shall desire to satisfy your request.

Those answered, We shall do it most willingly; for we cannot but honor the memory of the men for the good that not only many others but we ourselves have received by them and their ministry; for we have heard them all, and lived under the ministry of divers of them for some years. We shall therefore speak of them in order briefly.

Mr. Johnson, of whom something was spoken before, was pastor of the church of God at Amsterdam. A very grave man he was, and an able teacher, and was the most solemn in all his administrations that we have seen any, and especially in dispensing the seals of the covenant, both baptism and the Lord’s supper. And a good disputant he was. We heard Mr. Smith upon occasion say, that he was persuaded no men living were able to maintain a cause against those two men, meaning Mr. Johnson and Mr. Ainsworth, if they had not the truth on their side. He, by reason of many dissensions that fell out in the church, and the subtilty of one of the elders of the same, came after many years to alter his judgment about the government of the church, and his practice thereupon, which caused a division amongst them. But he lived not many years after, and died at Amsterdam after his return from Embden.

Young men.—But he is much spoken against for excommunicating his brother and his own father, and maintaining his wife’s cause, who was by his brother and others reproved for her pride in apparel.

Ancient men.—Himself hath often made his own defence, and others for him. The church did, after long patience towards them and much pains taken with them, excommunicate them for their unreasonable and endless opposition, and such things as did accompany the same; and such was the justice thereof, as he could not but consent thereto. In our time his wife was a grave matron, and very modest both in her apparel and all her demeanour, ready to any good works in her place, and helpful to many, especially the poor, and an ornament to his calling. She was a young widow when he married her, and had been a merchant’s wife, by whom he had a good estate, and was a godly woman; and because she wore such apparel as she had been formerly used to, which were neither excessive nor immodest, for their chiefest exceptions were against her wearing of some whalebone in the bodice and sleeves of her gown, corked shoes, and other such like things as the citizens of her rank then used to wear. And although, for offence sake, she and he were willing to reform the fashions of them so far as might be without spoiling of their garments, yet it would not content them except they came full up to their size. Such was the strictness or rigidness (as now the term goes) of some in those times, as we can by experience and of our own knowledge show in other instances. We shall for brevity sake only show one.

We were in the company of a godly man that had been a long time prisoner at Norwich for this cause, and was by Judge Cooke set at liberty. After going into the country he visited his friends, and returning that way again to go into the Low Countries by ship at Yarmouth, and so desired some of us to turn in with him to the house of an ancient woman in the city, who had been very kind and helpful to him in his sufferings. She knowing his voice made him very welcome, and those with him. But after some time of their entertainment, being ready to depart, she came up to him and felt of his band (for her eyes were dim with age), and perceiving it was something stiffened with starch, she was much displeased, and reproved him very sharply, fearing God would not prosper his journey. Yet the man was a plain countryman, clad in gray russet, without either welt or guard (as the proverb is), and the band he wore scarce worth threepence, made of their own homespinning; and he was godly and humble as he was plain. What would such professors, if they were now living, say to the excess of our times?

Mr. Henry Ainsworth, a man of a thousand, was teacher of this church at Amsterdam at the same time when Mr. Johnson was pastor. Two worthy men they were and of excellent parts. He continued constant in his judgment and practice unto his end in those things about the church government, from which Mr. Johnson swerved and fell. He ever maintained good correspondence with Mr. Robinson at Leyden, and would consult with him in all matters of weight, both in their differences and afterwards. A very learned man he was, and a close student, which much impaired his health. We have heard some, eminent in the knowledge of the tongues, of the university of Leyden, say that they thought he had not his better for the Hebrew tongue in the university, nor scarce in Europe. He was a man very modest, amiable, and sociable in his ordinary course and carriage, of an innocent and unblamable life and conversation, of a meek spirit, and a calm temper, void of passion and not easily provoked. And yet he would be something smart in his style to his opposers in his public writings; at which we that have seen his constant carriage, both in public disputes and the managing of all church affairs, and such like occurrences, have sometimes marvelled. He had an excellent gift of teaching and opening the Scriptures; and things did flow from him with that facility, plainness, and sweetness, as did much affect the hearers. He was powerful and profound in doctrine, although his voice was not strong; and had this excellency above many, that he was most ready and pregnant in the Scriptures, as if the book of God had been written in his heart; being as ready in his quotations, without tossing and turning his book, as if they had lain open before his eyes, and seldom missing a word in the citing of any place, teaching not only the word and doctrine of God, but in the words of God, and for the most part in a continued phrase and words of Scripture. He used great dexterity, and was ready in comparing Scripture with Scripture, one with another. In a word, the times and place in which he lived were not worthy of such a man.

Young men.—But we find that he is taxed, in a book writ by George Johnson, with apostasy and to be a man-pleaser, etc.