“Per saturum, I believe,” observed Clement, bowing, “if I may take the liberty.”
“Sati, satu—well, you may be right; my memory, Clement, retains large passages best, and ever did—to transfer the whole Popish population to the Established Church. It is a noble, a glorious speculation, if it only can be accomplished. Think of the advantages it would confer upon us! What stability would it not give the Church.”
“I cannot exactly see what peculiar stability it would give the Church,” replied Clement, “with the exception of mere numbers alone.”
“How so—what do you mean?”
“Why, sir,” replied Clement, “if we had the numbers you speak of to-morrow, we would be certainly worse off than we are today. They could only pay us our tithes, and that they do as it is; if they formed a portion, and the largest portion they would form, of our church, think of the immense number of clergy they would require to look to their religious wants—the number of churches and chapels of ease that must be built—the number of livings that must be divided—nay, my dear sir, in addition to this, you may easily see, that for every one bishop now, we should have at least four, then, and that the incomes would diminish in proportion. As it is now, sir, we have the tithes without the trouble of laboring for them, but it would be a different case in your new position of affairs.”
Mr. Lucre, who, in the heat of his zeal, had neither permitted himself to see matters in this light, nor to perceive that Clement's arguments concealed, under a grave aspect, something of irony and satire, looked upon his curate with dismay—the smooth and rosy cheek got pale, as did the whole purple face down to the third chin, each of which reminded one of the diminished rainbows in the sky, if we may be allowed to except that they were not so heavenly.
“Clement,” said he, “you amaze me—that is a most exceedingly clear view of the matter. Transfer them! no such thing, it would be a most dreadful calamity, unless church property were proportionately increased; but, could not that be done, Clement? Yes,” said he, exulting at the idea, as one of which he ought to feel proud, “that could and would be done—besides I relish the multiplication of the bishoprics, under any circumstances, and therefore we will proceed with the Reformation. At all events, it would be a great blessing to get rid of Popery, which we would do, if we could accomplish this glorious project.”
“I must confess, sir,” replied Mr. Clement gravely, “that I have never been anxious for a mere change of speculative opinions in any man, unless when accompanied by a corresponding improvement in his life and morals. With respect to the Reformation Society, I beg leave to observe that I think the plan for the present is unseasonable, and only calculated to fill the kingdom with religious dissention and hatred. The people, sir, are not prepared to have their religion taken by storm; they are too shrewd for that; and I really think we have no just cause to feel anxious for the conversion of those who cannot appreciate the principles upon which they embrace our faith, as must be the case with ninety-nine out of every hundred of them. I have ever been of opinion that the policy pursued by England towards this country has been the bane of its happiness. She deprived the Irish Roman Catholics of the means of acquiring education, and then punished them for the crimes which proceeded from their ignorance. They were a dissatisfied, a tumultuous, and an impracticable, because they were an oppressed, people; and where, by the way, is there a people, worthy to be named such, who will or ought to rest contented under penal and oppressive laws. But there was a day when they would have been grateful for the relaxation of such laws. Oppression, however, has its traditions, and so has revenge, and these can descend from father to son, without education. If Roman Catholic disabilities had been removed at a proper time, they would long since have been forgotten, but they were not, and now they are remembered, and will be remembered. The prejudices of the Roman Catholics, however, and their enmity towards those who oppressed them, increased with their numbers and their knowledge. The religion of those who kept them down was Protestant; and think you, sir, that, be the merits of that religion what they may, these are the people to come over in large masses, without esteem for us, reflection, or any knowledge of its principles, and embrace the creed of the very men whom they look upon as their oppressors. Sir, there is but one way of converting the Irish, and it this:—Let them find the best arguments for Protestantism in the lives of its ministers, and of all who profess it. Let the higher Protestant clergy move more among the humbler classes even of their own flocks—let them be found more frequently where the Roman Catholic priest always is—at the sick-bed—in the house of mourning, of death, and of sin—let them abandon the unbecoming pursuits of an ungodly ambition—cast from them the crooked and dishonest manoeuvres of political negotiation and intrigue—let them live more humbly, and more in accordance with the gospel which they preach—let them not set their hearts upon the church merely because it is a wealthy corporation, calculated rather to gratify their own worldly ambition or cupidity, than the spiritual exigencies of their own flocks—let them not draw their revenues from the pockets of a poor people who disclaim their faith, whilst they denounce and revile that faith as a thing not to be tolerated. Let them do this, sir—free Protestantism from the golden shackles which make it the slave of Mammon, that it may be able to work—do this, and depend upon it, that it will then flourish as it ought; but, in my humble opinion, until such a reform first takes place with ourselves, it is idle to expect that Roman Catholics will come over to us, unless, indeed, a few from sordid and dishonest motives—and these we were better without. I think, therefore, that the present Reformation Society is unseasonable and ill-advised, nor do I hesitate to predict that the event will prove it so. In conclusion, sir, I am sorry to say, that I've seldom seen one of those very zealous clergymen who would not rather convert one individual from Popery than ten from sin.”
“Why, Clement, you are a liberal!”
“I trust, sir, I am a Christian. As for liberalism, as it is generally understood, no man scorns the cant of it more than I do. But I cannot think that a Roman Catholic man sincerely worshipping God—even with, many obvious errors in his forms, or, with what we consider absurdities in his very creed—I cannot think, I say, that such a man, worshipping the Almighty according to his knowledge, will be damned. To think so is precisely the doctrine of exclusive salvation, with which we charge Popery itself.”