TESTIMONY OF EDMUND D. KROENER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, C. CALVERT KNUDSEN
Mr. Wheeler. Will you state your full name, please?
Mr. Kroener. Edmund D. Kroener.
Mr. Wheeler. Will counsel for the witness identify himself for the record?
Mr. Knudsen. C. Calvert Knudsen. And may the record show that I am, Mr. Chairman, if you please, the treasurer of the Seattle Bar Association, and, at the request of that association and at the request of this gentleman, I am undertaking to represent him at this hearing inasmuch as he is financially unable to obtain other counsel.
Mr. Moulder. The record will so reflect the statement made by counsel.
Mr. Velde. May I make this remark?
In connection with our hearings last June it was mentioned several times that the mere fact that an attorney represents a witness who might be a fifth amendment witness should be no reflection whatsoever on the attorney. And I am sure that is true of all the attorneys who have appeared here today.
Mr. Moulder. It is your duty to be here in the capacity in which you appear here today, in the honor of your own profession.
Mr. Knudsen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wheeler. Will you spell your name, please?
Mr. Kroener. K-r-o-e-n-e-r.
Mr. Wheeler. Do you presently reside in Seattle?
Mr. Kroener. Yes.
Mr. Wheeler. What is your occupation, Mr. Kroener?
Mr. Kroener. Work as a machinist.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you presently employed?
Mr. Kroener. No; I am not.
Mr. Wheeler. Being a machinist, are you a member of any union?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Kroener. I wish to invoke, on answering that, the fifth amendment, on the grounds that it may incriminate me.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you a member of the International Association of Machinists, A. F. of L.?
Mr. Kroener. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wheeler. Have they instituted charges against you to remove you from membership in the union?
Mr. Kroener. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wheeler. What has been your educational background, Mr. Kroener?
Mr. Kroener. First half year of the eighth grade of grammar school.
Mr. Wheeler. In Seattle?
Mr. Kroener. Yes.
Mr. Wheeler. How have you been employed?
Mr. Kroener. When I was younger I worked in logging camps and did odd jobs in the steel mills, and as a welder. And, oh, since about 1941 and 1942 I have worked in the machine trade.
Mr. Wheeler. In the machine trade?
Mr. Kroener. Yes.
Mr. Wheeler. For what companies have you worked as a machinist?
Mr. Kroener. I don’t remember all of them exactly, and I couldn’t say the times I have worked for a number of the uptown shops and marine yards in Seattle. Some of them have gone out of business. Gibson’s has gone out of business. And I worked at Washington Iron Works and marine yards around Seattle.
Mr. Wheeler. Do you know who just preceded you on the witness stand?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Kroener. I wish to again invoke the fifth amendment on the grounds of self-incrimination.
Mr. Wheeler. Were you present in the hearing room when Mr. Eugene Robel testified?
Mr. Kroener. I was present.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you acquainted with him?
Mr. Kroener. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wheeler. Were you present in the hearing room when Mr. Harold Johnston testified?
Mr. Kroener. I was present.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you acquainted with Mr. Harold Johnston?
Mr. Kroener. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wheeler. Is it a fact that the three individuals I just mentioned, along with you and other people, were members of a cell within the machinists union?
Mr. Kroener. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment on the grounds of self-incrimination.
Mr. Moulder. Do you have any knowledge as to the action taken by a machinists union referred to by Mr. Wheeler in expelling members from that union where there is evidence of their Communist affiliations?
Mr. Kroener. I believe there may be some such program going on, but I am not too well acquainted with it. So I couldn’t answer it too clearly.
Mr. Moulder. Is the reason why you refuse to answer because of the fear you might be expelled from the union?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Kroener. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment on the ground that the answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Moulder. Do you have knowledge and information that the union referred to is exercising its efforts to rid its ranks of persons who are Communists?
Mr. Kroener. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Moulder. I hope the witness has contributed to the union’s effort.
Mr. Wheeler. When and where you were born, Mr. Kroener?
Mr. Kroener. Seattle, Wash., April 8, 1920.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you acquainted with Mrs. Barbara Hartle?
Mr. Kroener. Again I invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wheeler. Did you know that Mrs. Hartle, in her testimony as a witness before this committee in June 1954, identified you as a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Kroener. Again I invoke the fifth amendment on the grounds of self-incrimination.
Mr. Wheeler. Have no comment other than that concerning her testimony?
Mr. Kroener. No.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Wheeler, do you have the testimony of Mrs. Hartle there?
Mr. Wheeler. I do, sir.
Mr. Velde. Will you read it for the record, please?
Mr. Wheeler. Mrs. Hartle, during a portion of the testimony discussing the industrial branch of the Communist Party, was questioned by Mr. Tavenner:
Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not there was any important function that Elmer Thrasher performed in the industrial section of the party?
Mrs. Hartle. He was chairman of a branch in the industrial section, in the building trades. He was a member of one of the building-trades unions—the carpenters union.
Another one whom I recall is Ed Kroener. He lived in the Duwamish Bend area, in the Duwamish Bend housing project, with his wife, Donna Kroener, who was a member of the south King region and the Duwamish Bend Club, but he was a member of the industrial section inasmuch as he was a member of the Machinists Union, Local No. 79.
Do you wish to comment on that testimony, Mr. Kroener?
Mr. Kroener. No.
Mr. Velde. To what period of time was Mrs. Hartle referring?
Mr. Wheeler. To what period of time, Mr. Kroener, was she referring?
Mr. Kroener. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment on the grounds of self-incrimination.
Mr. Wheeler. Mr. Kroener, did you at any time participate as an individual within the Progressive Party in 1948 in the State of Washington?
Mr. Kroener. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment on the grounds of self-incrimination.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you a member of the Communist Party today?
Mr. Kroener. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment on the grounds of self-incrimination.
Mr. Wheeler. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Velde?
Mr. Velde. I have just one brief question. How could your acquaintanceship with Mrs. Hartle or Mr. Johnston or the other witnesses whom you were asked about tend to incriminate you?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Kroener. The answer to that question may open up a whole field of other questions, and, therefore, I wish to invoke the fifth amendment on the grounds of self-incrimination.
Mr. Moulder. Do you have anything else you wish to say in explanation of your presence or your appearance here?
Are you married?
Mr. Kroener. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. Do you have a family?
Mr. Kroener. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. Did you serve in the Armed Forces of the United States?
Mr. Kroener. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. In what capacity and what branch?
Mr. Kroener. I was in the Marine Corps, 1944, 1945, and 1946, South Pacific and China.
Mr. Moulder. Is there anything further you wish to say?
Mr. Kroener. That is all.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
The committee will stand recessed until tomorrow morning at 9 o’clock.
(Whereupon, at 4:57 p. m., the committee was recessed, to be reconvened at 9 a. m., Friday, March 18, 1955.)