TESTIMONY OF EDWIN A. CARLSON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, JAY G. SYKES
Mr. Wheeler. Will you state your full name.
Mr. Carlson. Edwin A. Carlson.
Mr. Wheeler. I see you are represented by counsel. Will counsel identify himself for the record?
Mr. Sykes. Jay G. Sykes.
Mr. Wheeler. When and where were you born, Mr. Carlson?
Mr. Carlson. I was born in Grantsburg, Wis., 1909.
Mr. Wheeler. How long have you lived in the State of Washington?
Mr. Carlson. Since 1940.
Mr. Wheeler. And where did you live prior to 1940?
Mr. Carlson. At Cloverton, Minn.
Mr. Wheeler. And what is your occupation?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. I am a machinist.
Mr. Wheeler. Being a machinist, are you affiliated with any union, or are you a member of any union?
Mr. Carlson. Because the answer to that question may tend to incriminate me, I invoke the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution, and refuse to answer it.
Mr. Wheeler. Is it not true that you are it member of the machinists union, A. F. of L.?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. Mr. Chairman, I would like to explain that there are 3 branches of the machinists union in the city of Seattle.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. Which one do you mean?
Mr. Wheeler. Any one of the three.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. I must invoke the fifth amendment to that question, and refuse to answer.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you presently employed?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. I am unemployed at the present time.
Mr. Wheeler. I would like to read a telegram. This telegram was sent by one Ed Carlson, member of the machinists union, is so identified, and appears in part 11 (appendix), page 6748, of the hearings held here in June 1954. It is dated Seattle, Wash., June 19, 1954, and addressed to the Velde committee, Seattle.
Dear Sirs: I see by the paper that Mrs. Hartle names one Ed Carlson as a member of the Communist Party in the machinists union. I presume I am the individual referred to. So that the record is straight, let me insert this into the record for all to see and hear.
It did not take me 20 years to decide that the Communist Party was not the answer to the problems as I see them. In fact, I am very nearly positive it was Mrs. Hartle who tried to persuade me to reconsider my decision to discontinue my affiliations, which is now approximately 5 years ago.
I do believe that my many friends and acquaintances are entitled to this additional clarification of the facts.
Sincerely,
Ed Carlson,
Member of Machinists Union.
Did you send that telegram, Mr. Carlson?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. Yes; I did.
Mr. Wheeler. Were you a member of the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. Will you specify the date that you are referring to?
Mr. Wheeler. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. Mr. Chairman, I am not a member of the Communist Party today. But in regards to whether I ever have been one, the answer may tend to incriminate me, and I refuse to answer.
Mr. Moulder. In other words, during the past 5 years, as I understand the telegram, you have not been a member of the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. Yes; that is correct.
Mr. Moulder. In other words, 5 years ago you disassociated yourself from any connection with the Communist Party movement. Is that so? Approximately 5 years ago?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Moulder. It all amounts to the same thing since you answered the question by simply saying that during the last 5 years you have not been associated with the Communist Party, as I understand it from your attempt or your endeavor to clear yourself here. And that I would certainly like to see you do.
Mr. Carlson. Mr. Chairman, the question of association is so very broad that I feel that you should make that question more specific.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Moulder. By disassociating yourself it is not meant by that if you happened to be around someone who might have been a member of the Communist Party. I mean did you yourself, in your belief, your philosophy, your way of thinking and your way of activities, disassociate yourself from the Communist Party approximately 5 years ago? Is that so?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. Mr. Chairman, I never have—I did not participate knowingly with the Communist Party during that period.
Mr. Moulder. Are you now referring to the past 5 years?
Mr. Carlson. That is correct.
Mr. Moulder. May I ask you this question:
Is your attitude and opinion concerning Communist Party activities now different than 5 years ago?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. Mr. Chairman, I can’t specifically state what my opinions are. I just am in utter confusion.
Mr. Moulder. It is not the purpose of this committee, it is not our intention, Mr. Velde and I or Mr. Wheeler, to confuse anyone or to commit any injustice toward you.
I am impressed by your appearance and your endeavor to try to come forward and make a clean statement or explanation. And I think it would be to your benefit for you to do it for your own interest. I am sure it would be.
You infer that maybe at one time you may have had some connection with Communist Party activities. You probably have some reasonable explanation for which you maybe couldn’t or wouldn’t necessarily be criticized or condemned.
Mr. Carlson. It is very hard for me to understand what you are saying. Some of the words I do not catch.
Would you speak a little louder, please?
Mr. Moulder. May I ask you this question:
Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. No.
Mr. Moulder. Do you now believe in the Communist Party philosophy or its objectives?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Carlson. Well, Mr. Chairman, in the light of all the testimony that I have read in the papers and heard, I really don’t know what it is about, I don’t really know what they do stand for. I am confused in my own mind.
Mr. Velde. It is not the purpose or intention of this committee, and I can very well speak for all of the members of the committee, to get you into a position where you are in contempt of Congress. I concur with Mr. Moulder in his statement a few moments ago. I think that you do have a problem. I think that you are confused about the situation. Nevertheless, you do have, in my opinion, some information which would be valuable to this committee. At the same time you could clear your own conscience, so to speak, if you would give us the benefit of the information you have regarding your Communist Party connections.
So I am going to ask, Mr. Chairman, that the witness be excused and be given a chance to consult with his attorney and think the proposition over, and possibly he may decide to return and give us the information which we believe he has.
Mr. Moulder. I think that is a splendid suggestion Mr. Velde has made.
You will be excused until tomorrow morning. You think this over, and in the meantime, if you wish to talk to any of the investigators or counsel or any member of the committee, we would be happy to talk to you. Give it serious thought.
You will be excused until 9 o’clock in the morning.
(Whereupon the witness was excused until 9 o’clock the following morning.)
Mr. Moulder. Call the next witness, Mr. Wheeler.
Mr. Wheeler. Edmund Kroener.
Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Kroener. I do.