Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 1 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Saturday, February 21.

An engrossed bill authorizing the payment of four thousand dollars for the use of the daughters of the late Count de Grasse, was read the third time and passed.

Tuesday, February 24.

Case of Thomas Person and others.

It was moved that the House should go into consideration of the report of the select committee to whom had been referred a resolution of the House in relation to the back lands of North Carolina. The following is the resolution of the select committee:

"Resolved, That in case the President of the United States shall think proper to enter into a treaty or treaties with all or any of the Indian tribes claiming lands within the territory south of the river Ohio, for the extinguishment of their claims to all or any of the said lands, the sum of —— dollars be, and the same is hereby, appropriated to the purpose of defraying the expenses of any such treaty or treaties."

Mr. Goodhue did not see that the United States had any concern to interfere in such a purchase: it was private property.

Mr. Dayton explained that the petition of Thomas Person and others comprehended only two millions of acres. The resolution contemplated twenty millions. It will, when completed, enable the United States to protect the Choctaws and Chickasaws from the Creeks and Cherokees, if the latter should happen to attack them; and that they will attack the Chickasaws is not improbable, from assistance which the latter have given to the white people. Besides, the frontier will be capable of defence, at a much cheaper rate, in this way than at present it can be. It is now an irregular line. A peculiar circumstance, besides, will make the lands easy to be purchased. No Indian tribes reside on them. When the gentleman from Massachusetts considers these things, he will not object, since the United States will gain eighteen millions of acres by the transaction.

Mr. Goodhue admitted the reasoning as to the eighteen millions, but still scrupled as to the rest.

Mr. Swift recommended that the Indian claim should in the mean time be extinguished.

Mr. McDowell, in reply to Mr. Goodhue, said that if the gentleman had attended to the reasonings formerly used on this subject, and which had occupied considerable time of the House during the present session, he could have been at no loss for understanding the propriety of this purchase being made by the United States.

A committee were named to bring in a bill, in terms of the resolution recommended by the select committee.

Wednesday, February 25.

Indian Lands in Georgia.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the report of the committee to whom was referred so much of the message from the President of the United States, of the seventeenth instant, as relates to the disposition of Indian lands by the Legislature of the State of Georgia.

Mr. Ames said, that during the time when the National Debt bill was under discussion, he had attempted to get something introduced in favor of the new emission money creditors, but gentlemen always rose en masse against any proposal that would tend to obstruct the progress of the bill. He now again urged that this affair might be taken into consideration. He knew he should be told of a standing rule of the House that the unfinished business must first be taken up. These creditors had waited for four years without redress, and the rules of the House ought to give way to common feeling and common sense. He therefore moved that the rule in question should be suspended.

The motion was negatived, and the House then went into a committee upon the second and remaining resolutions in the report of the select committee on the Message of the President.

The following is a copy of the third and fourth resolutions in this report:

"Resolved, That the President of the United States be authorized, whenever claims under prior contracts may cease to exist, to obtain a cession of the State of Georgia, of their claim to the whole or any part of the land within the present Indian boundaries; and that —— dollars ought to be appropriated to enable him to effect the same.

"Resolved, That all persons who shall be assembled, or embodied in arms, on any lands belonging to Indians, out of the ordinary jurisdiction of any State, or of the territory south of the river Ohio, for the purpose of warring against the Indians, or committing depredations upon any Indian town, or persons, or property, shall thereby become liable and subject to the rules and articles of war, which are, or shall be established for the government of the troops of the United States."

After some discussion, the committee rose; the Chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again. This was negatived—yeas 33, nays 35.

The House then took up the resolutions. Various amendments were proposed; and the last resolution, in particular, was objected to, as subjecting people to martial law.

Mr. Wadsworth said, that from a trial by jury he had no hopes. There never had been one instance of a white man condemned and hanged by white men, on the frontier, for the murder of an Indian, since the first landing in America. There might be such a thing for the murder of an Indian, when they lived among the whites. That there ever had been such a thing he did not know. He had been told by judges, upon the frontier, that it was no matter what evidence of a murder of an Indian was brought. No jury would bring the criminal in guilty. It was but very lately that a cool and unprovoked murder had been committed on the borders of this State upon an Indian. The evidence was clear. Nobody pretended to doubt it. The judge gave an earnest charge to the jury; but all to no purpose; they found "not guilty."

Mr. Sedgwick proposed an amendment to the last resolution, as follows:

"Resolved, That all persons who shall be assembled, or embodied in arms, on any lands belonging to Indians, out of the ordinary jurisdiction of any State, or of the territory south of the river Ohio, for the purpose of warring against the Indians, or of committing depredations against any Indian town, or persons, or property, shall thereby become liable and subject to be taken and confined by the military force of the United States, in such manner as to be made amenable to, and triable by law."

Ordered, That the said motion be committed to Mr. Sedgwick, Mr. Madison, and Mr. Hillhouse.

Friday, February 27.

Indian Lands in Georgia.

The House then went into a Committee of the Whole, Mr. Sherburne in the chair, on the report of the select committee to whom had been referred the motion of the 25th instant, respecting such persons as shall be assembled, or embodied in arms, on any lands belonging to Indians, out of the ordinary jurisdiction of any State, or of the territory of the United States south of the river Ohio. The resolutions are as follow:

"Resolved, That all persons who, unauthorized by law, may be found in arms on any lands westward of the lines established by treaties with the Indian tribes, shall, on conviction thereof, forfeit a sum not exceeding —— dollars, and be imprisoned not exceeding —— months.

"Resolved, That it shall be lawful for the military force of the United States to apprehend every person or persons found in arms, as aforesaid, and him or them to convey to the civil authority of the United States, within some of the States, who shall, by such authority, be secured, to be tried in manner hereafter expressed.

"Resolved, That every person apprehended, as aforesaid, shall be tried in manner and form as is expressed in and by the act, entitled, 'An act to regulate trade and intercourse with the Indian tribes.'"

Several amendments were proposed and agreed to. At last Mr. Venable proposed one, which was, in substance, that persons should not be liable to the operation of the law who were in pursuit of Indians that had committed actual hostilities on the frontier.

Mr. Sedgwick paid many compliments to Mr. Venable, as a sound lawyer, who certainly knew that, by the inherent rights of nature, every man was to pursue and punish those who had robbed him. This was implied in the bill, and was a part of the law of nature, so that there could be no use for its insertion.

Mr. Venable, in reply, declared that he was not so sound a lawyer as the gentleman supposed him to be. He was not so sound a lawyer as to discover that there was any such implication in the bill as the gentleman stated. Neither was he a sound enough lawyer to see, that, if his amendment was really implied in the bill, there could be any harm in having it expressed. At present he could discover no such implication. On the contrary, he saw very plainly, that, by the resolution as it now stood, a man whose family had been murdered or carried off by the savages, might, while pursuing them, be stopped and sent to jail. Mr. V., from the admission of Mr. Sedgwick himself, insisted on the propriety of adopting his amendment.

Mr. Hillhouse objected to the permission of armed individuals crossing the line, upon any pretence whatever. What use was there for expending millions every year in defence of the frontier people, if they were to be at liberty to cross the Indian line as often as they pleased, and to do what was to all intents and purposes carrying on war? If they will fight, let us recall our forces and leave them to fight for themselves. Are they, for the stealing of a horse, or some such thing, to cross the line in armed bodies, and act just as they please? Mr. H. utterly denied the doctrine admitted by Mr. Sedgwick, that a man was authorized to chastise by his own hand those who had injured him. Was he to be both judge and executioner in his own case? No such thing.

Mr. Greenup said, that, in coming to Congress every year, he was obliged to pass over territories belonging to Indians, and he always thought it necessary to carry a gun. He did not see, by the resolution as it stood, why the military officers of the United States might not stop him, as well as other people.

Mr. Moore objected to the clause altogether. It is usual for people on the frontiers to send out parties over the line to watch the Indians, and when they are coming to give notice, that the country may be prepared for their reception. Now, these people may be seized by your officers.

Mr. Findlay imagined it would be the best way to declare that there shall be no frontier. It had been said by Mr. Hillhouse that the United States might withdraw their forces, and leave the frontier settlers to defend themselves. Did he imagine that, as it is, they are not kept in a perpetual state of alarm, of exertion, and of danger? There has not been a harvest for many years past where the people have not been called off from their labors, and, to their very great loss, to protect the frontier. This resolution not to allow pursuit, would be inviting the Indians with a witness.

Mr. Sedgwick said, that this amendment, in reality, destroyed all that had been done or intended. No military officer, after such an amendment, will run the risk of taking a man up. The prisoner has only to say, "I am in pursuit of Indians," and then he must be set at liberty; for, in the wilderness, no evidence can be had to contradict him. The amendment, therefore, was a coup de grace to the whole affair. Mr. S. said he was personally extremely hurt at the constant complaints of the inefficiency of the defence afforded on the frontier, which cost annually so much to Government.

Mr. Blount thought that the best way would be, to let it be known that the whites were authorized to pursue the Indians into their own country, and then they would stand more in awe. He mentioned a circumstance that happened within memory, to prove how much the Indians feared a serious attack, and how well they remembered a serious chastisement. Mr. B. stated that some Indians had made an incursion, and were stealing cattle belonging to the army, at a block-house. One of them was most deservedly shot, and the soldier had his pay stopped.

Mr. Hillhouse said, the more that he thought of this amendment, the more he saw its mischievous consequences. It went to invert all the laws that had been made for the protection of the Indians; and, instead of being a bill to protect them from the whites, the resolutions would produce a bill to protect the whites from them.

Mr. Smilie objected to Mr. Sedgwick's having threatened that the army of the United States should be withdrawn from the frontiers. [He had made some other advances against that gentleman, to which Mr. Sedgwick answered not loud enough to be heard; but at this last, he arose, and said that he would not sit still to hear himself thus quoted for affirmations of which he had never uttered a single word.]

Mr. Fitzsimons really hoped that the House would not agree to this amendment. It would totally defeat all the effects proposed by the bill. It had been said, that if a man had his family murdered, and he was in pursuit of the murderers, he might be stopped by a military officer, and sent to jail. The answer was, that if the officer refused to join him in the pursuit, he would lose his commission. He should be sorry if those resolutions, which had cost so much time and labor to the House, were thus to be thrown away.

The amendment was, on a division, carried—yeas 36, nays 28. The committee then rose.