Tuesday, November 25.
Another member, to wit, James Gillespie, from North Carolina, appeared, and took his seat in the House.
The President's Speech.
The House again went into Committee of the Whole on the Address of the President and the amendment of Mr. Fitzsimons, Mr. Cobb in the chair.
Mr. Murray said, that he did not altogether like the wording of the amendment now before the House. He had hoped that some modification of it would have been prepared by some of its friends; but as none was offered, and there was a call for the question, he would vote for it rather than against it. He said, that he had not been personally attacked by any of the tribunals in question, and no further injured by their machinations than as he was a citizen of a free Republic in whose prosperity he felt the closest possible union, and in whose calamities he of course felt great sympathy. Among the various sources of the late calamity, the President had traced and designated certain self-created societies, who had arrogated the management of public opinions and affairs, and whom he had declared to have been, in his opinion, instrumental in fomenting the late insurrection. Mr. M. confessed that he had feared, last winter, lest the disorganizing spirit which had gone abroad in the shape of resolutions from these societies, would have produced the effect ascribed to them by the President. The conduct of the Democratic clubs, or those of them with which he had most acquaintance, appeared to him to have been instrumental to an event which threatened destruction to legitimate government. If we believe this to be the case, Mr. M. knew no motive, duty, or policy, which ought to restrain us at this period from saying that we believe it, and from lamenting it. Our declaration will rather hold out a caution to the thoughtless, than inflict legal penalties upon their follies. It will present to our fellow-citizens a memorable example of one source of error and political misfortune, by showing them the danger, which has already cost above twelve hundred thousand dollars. He could not see any evil that was to result from an expression of the opinion of the House, by the proposed amendment. It had not the quality of law; for, if a law were proposed for the abolition of these societies, he would oppose it. This amendment to the Address would operate as an advice. It curtails not the right of a free press, which Mr. M. held to be the luminary of the public mind. It would tend to excite a judicious and salutary inquiry among many respecting the just and true limits within which a virtuous and enlightened well-wisher to our country would think it safe to exercise this right. Of the inutility and danger of such societies in this country, he had little doubt. The scene of their birthplace was well adapted to the wholesome display of their powers. In France, where a despotism, impregnable to public opinion, had reigned—where no channel opened a sympathy by representation with the great body of the nation—those societies were admirably adapted to break down and subvert the old bulwark of habitual authority. But in America the case was widely different. Look at the immense body of public functionaries, who in this country are elected immediately by the people, or by their electors, in a constitutional mode, and say whether they are not adequate as functionaries to the public purposes of the country. Including every description of Legislators, Councils, Governors, Courts, Jurors, and Sheriffs, there are above twelve thousand. Of these, more than eleven hundred are actual Legislators, besides the hundred in this House, and those above stairs. These all act in the States, counties, townships, and hundreds, in separate but relative circles, so as to preclude a partial attention to any one scene, to the exclusion of another. The whole country is full of well-constituted organs of the people's will. Many of these Legislatures are in session twice a year, and all of them annually. We might be confused by their immense number, were they not so admirably dispersed over the Continent, and did they not move under the guidance of the laws, with the harmony of the spheres. It would not be easy to organize the nation into a more multifarious shape.
The case maintained by Mr. Dayton yesterday appeared to be strong. He said that we had inquired into the defeat of St. Clair's army, and so we might into the causes of the insurrection. To point it out to a people so enlightened, will be to prevent it in future. If the House agree in opinion with the President, they will speak their opinion, and do their duty. This declaration goes to the constituent body, through the Executive; and, while it gratifies their inquiries in a point of so much solicitude, it erects a warning beacon. It shows to them the stormy breakers which lately threatened the public peace with shipwreck, and invites them to adhere to pilots of their own choosing, and to charts with which they are acquainted.
If the President had not thought some of the societies instrumental in producing the late calamity, they would not have attracted his notice, nor that of the House. It is because they are believed to have assisted and fomented the insurrection, that our constituents ought to be warned against them; and that another necessity for exerting their patriotism may be saved to those brave men who are at present encountering every difficulty in the West. These societies are not attended to, because, however offensive some of their proceedings and doctrines may have been, yet the rights of the press ought not to be freely handled.
Mr. Fitzsimons had no violent predilection for any performance of his own. He had, therefore, to prevent so much disputing, prepared to withdraw his motion, provided the committee be willing that he should do so, and, in the room of this motion, he would read another, for which he was indebted to a gentleman at his right hand, (Mr. B. Bourne.)
The committee consented. The former motion was withdrawn, and the other was read. This was an echo of that part of the speech of the President which mentions self-created societies.
Mr. Christie then rose. He was sorry to differ from his worthy colleague (Mr. Murray) on the question then before the committee; and he was doubly sorry to hear that gentleman labor so strenuously to saddle a public odium on some of the best citizens of the State which he represented. Mr. C. should not have risen on the present occasion, although he thought it an important one, had it not been to endeavor to rescue from public censure a society of gentlemen, who were described in the present amendment before the committee, as objects of public opprobrium. Mr. C. alluded to the Republican Society of the town of Baltimore. If the present amendment took place, that society would be involved in general and undeserved censure. He would, therefore, inform the House of what description of men the Republican Society of Baltimore consisted; and then the committee would be the best judges whether they ought to be rewarded in the manner in which the present amendment proposes. They are a society of gentlemen associated together for the purpose of diffusing political knowledge throughout the State of Maryland, and to instruct their Representatives in Congress, and the Legislature of the State, in any point that they think necessary, and not for the purpose of sowing dissension among the citizens of America, or of cultivating dislike to the Union, or to the laws. This society consists of men whose characters are superior to any censure that might be thrown against them, by the mover of the amendment. But when Congress are about to cast an odium on a particular society, the members of which have every respect for that body, and have always inculcated obedience to the laws of the United States, Mr. C. left it to the committee to determine whether, if they were themselves in the place of the Baltimore Society, they would not feel their sensibility materially wounded? Was not this returning good for evil? He again reminded the committee that the Republican Society at Baltimore was composed of a band of patriots, not the fair-weather patriots of the present day, but the patriots of seventy-five, the men who were not afraid to rally around the American standard, when that station was almost concluded to be a forlorn hope. They were men who, with their persons and properties, had assisted to drive from the soil of America the present lawless disturbers of the world. Are these the men, asked Mr. C., who ought to have all this mass of Congressional odium cast upon them? I trust not, sir. I trust, that if particular gentlemen are illiberal enough to censure them, yet that this House will never agree to such iniquitous measures. What was the conduct of this society when the first news of the late insurrection reached them? Did they not, in the most pointed manner, discountenance any such proceeding? Did they not refuse to correspond with any society that aided, or in any manner abetted, the insurrection? They did more. They offered their personal services to go and help to crush this commotion in the bud. Mr. C. subjoined that he would venture to say, and at the same time he spoke within bounds, that nine-tenths of this society actually took up their muskets and marched into the field for the above laudable purpose, and that numbers of them still continue there, and are the friends of peace and order, and not the disorganizers that the present amendment would make them. Mr. C. appealed to the candor of the committee to say, whether the Baltimore self-created Republican Society were the description of men whom the President, in his Speech, meant to describe. He was sure it was not. Therefore, why involve in this indiscriminate censure men who have deserved so well of their country? men who, instead of having odium cast upon them, merit every praise which the Federal Government can bestow. For these, and some other reasons, Mr. C. declared that he should vote against the amendment, and he trusted that he should vote in the majority.
Mr. Murray rose to explain. He did not mean this society. It was the Philadelphia and Pittsburg societies. Mr. M. was acquainted with this society, and had the greatest respect for them. As for the members of the other societies, he was for gibbeting their principles only.
Mr. Rutherford.—This alarm is owing to an overgrown moneyed system, with which the people are not entirely satisfied. But the moneyholders need not be afraid. The people will pay the public debt. Then why disturb the tranquillity of the people? The President, in his Speech, points only at combinations over the mountains. As to the character of the President himself, to praise him was like holding up a rush candle to let us see the sun. I have known that man, said Mr. R., for these forty years. I have had the honor of serving under him in the last war, and of frequently executing his wise and noble orders. The member declared that this amendment could answer no purpose but that of disturbing the public peace. He himself represented as respectable a district as any in Virginia, and he had as good opportunities as any gentleman in that House to know the temper of Americans. They were firmly attached to the present Government, and the holders of paper need not be so much afraid of Democratic societies, for the people, to preserve the tranquillity, were determined to discharge the public debt, no matter how it was contracted, and, therefore, it would be much better not to harass the public mind with amendments like that on the table.
Mr. Giles said, that he had an amendment to propose that would, he hoped, meet with the approbation of a certain description of gentlemen in that committee. His amendment was to strike out the words "self-created societies," from the amendment of Mr. Fitzsimons, and insert "the Democratic societies of Philadelphia, New York, and Pittsburg." Gentlemen could then have some specific object at which they could say that their vote of censure was levelled; for the general expression of self-created, comprehended every society of any kind in the Union. For his own part, he was very far from wanting to censure any set of men for their political opinions.
Mr. Parker seconded the motion for striking out, but he would not consent to the insertion proposed by Mr. Giles.
Mr. Sedgwick thought that the amendment stands better as it is at present.
Mr. Venable said, that there was a paper on that table (he referred to the letter from Mr. Hamilton to the President) which showed that the combinations in the western counties began their existence at the very same time with the Excise law itself. It was, therefore, entirely improper to ascribe them to Democratic societies. Should Government, said Mr. V., come forward and show their imbecility by censuring what we cannot punish? The people have a right to think and a right to speak. I am not afraid to speak my sentiments. I am not afraid of being called a disorganizer. I am, as much as any gentleman in this committee, a friend to regular government.
Mr. Dexter believed that such societies were, in themselves, wrong, but he was still not for making laws against them. He had, however, numerous objections to their conduct. One of these was, that they erected themselves into a model for the rest of their fellow-citizens to copy. The great principle of Republicanism was, that the minority should submit to the will of the majority. But these people have elevated themselves into tyrants. Such societies are proper in a country where government is despotic, but it is improper that such societies should exist in a free country like the United States, and hence, Mr. D. was a friend to the amendment proposed by Mr. Fitzsimons. It had been said, that it was unusual to give opinions of this kind, but, in reality, the House were in the practice of expressing their sentiments on matters of that sort, in such addresses as the one now before them. Mr. D. was decidedly against the amendment of the amendment proposed by Mr. Giles.
Mr. Nicholas.—Gentlemen have brought us into a discussion, and then say we must decide as they please, in deference to the President. This is the real ground and foundation of their arguments. But who started this question? If the gentlemen have brought themselves into a difficulty with regard to the President, by their participation in proposing votes of censure which they cannot carry through, they have only to blame themselves. Is it expected, said Mr. N., that I am to abandon my independence for the sake of the President? He never intended that we should take any such notice of his reference to these societies; but if the popularity of the President has, in the present case, been committed, let those who have hatched this thing, and who have brought it forward, answer for the consequences. This whole question turns upon a matter of fact, which ought to be proved, viz: Have the Democratic societies been one of the principal causes of the Western insurrection? This is a matter of fact, or otherwise, and it depends upon direct evidence. But how do gentlemen handle this question? They digress into abstract propositions, a thing never heard of before, where a matter of fact was to be proved. I say, where direct proof is wanted, we see gentlemen standing on the floor for half an hour together, without attempting to advance a single fact in support of their assertions; yet this is the only admissible kind of evidence that the societies are from their nature unfriendly to the Federal Government.
Mr. N. then adverted to a remark which had been made, that libels were daily prosecuted in this country, from which it was inferred that calumnious attacks on Government were the just objects of reprehension. Mr. N. said, that the comparison was not fair, because in a case of libel, the parties accused have a proper opportunity to defend themselves. Have these people here (the Democratic societies) any such opportunity? It has been alleged, as a crime against them, that they have never once published any approbation of any measure of Government. Mr. N. argued that this arose from the very nature of their institution, which was to watch the errors of the Legislature and Executive, and point out to the public what they considered to be mistakes. Faults were the only kind of facts which they were in quest of. Here Mr. N. drew a material distinction. If these societies had censured every proceeding of Government, there would have been the greatest reason for taking some measures. But what was the case? As to an immense number of the proceedings of the Executive and Legislature, they had taken no notice whatever.
Mr. Sedgwick thought that the President would have been defective in his duty, had he omitted to mention what he religiously believed to be true, viz: that the Democratic societies had in a great measure originated the late disturbances. It was the indispensable duty of the President to speak as he had spoken. The present amendment (of Mr. Fitzsimons) would have a tendency to plunge these societies into contempt, and to sink them still farther into abhorrence and detestation. He pronounced them to be illicit combinations. One gentleman (Mr. Nicholas) tells you, that he despises them most heartily. Another (Mr. Lyman) says that they begin to repent. Will the American people perversely propose to shoulder and bolster up these despised and repenting societies, which are now tumbling into dust and contempt? Their conduct differed as far from a fair and honorable investigation, as Christ and Belial. They were men prowling in the dark. God is my judge, said Mr. S., that I would not wish to check a fair discussion.
One gentleman (Mr. McDowell) had told the committee, that the Assumption and Funding transactions were a cause of public discontent. It has been the trick of these people to make this assertion. They have said that the Funding System is a mass of favoritism, for the purpose of erecting an oppressive aristocracy, and a paper nobility. There is not a man among them, who is able to write, and who does not know that these assertions are false. As to the assumption of the debts of individual States, it has been said that this measure was undertaken for the purpose of making up a large debt. There was no such thing. Before the adoption of the new constitution, of which Mr. S. considered the Funding and Assumption Systems to be essential preliminaries, the credit and commerce of America were declining or gone. The States were disagreeing at home, and the American name was disgraced abroad. It was not to be supposed that every one of the measures of the new Government could please every body. Among the rest, excise was objected to in both Houses of Congress; but at last the good sense of the people acquiesced. At this crisis, a foreign agent (Genet) landed at Charleston. On his way to this city, he was attended by the hosannas of all the disaffected. He did the utmost mischief that was in his power; and in consequence of his efforts, Democratic societies sprung up. Mr. S. here gave a particular account of some proceedings of a society in Virginia, of more than usual boldness. He quoted some of their expressions relative to a very illustrious character, the President, and added that perhaps the individuals who composed this society were in themselves too despicable to deserve any notice in this place. He did not know whether they were or not. [Mr. S. was here interrupted by a member from Virginia, and an explanation ensued.]
Mr. McDowell rose to make an apology for some words which had escaped him the day before. He did not expect to have been so smartly handled. He had been forcibly struck at the time, and had spoken from a momentary impulse. In substance, however, he adhered to all his former allegations. He still persisted in believing that the excise laws were shapen in darkness. He apologized for some part of his heat, from having seen and suffered so much by despotic government during the last war in which this gentleman supported the character of a brave and able officer.
Mr. Hillhouse approved of the amendment; as proposed by Mr. Fitzsimons. Constituents made no scruple to tell Representatives of their faults, and he saw no reason why Representatives might not tell constituents of theirs? The resolutions of Democratic societies printed in newspapers, had spirited up the people in the Western counties to resistance. They had weakly fancied that the American nation would not stand by their constitution and their President. But for the publication of these resolutions, there would have been no insurrection. This was a piece of information which the people of the United States had a right to know. It was the duty of that House to let them know it. The President had done his duty. Mr. H. did not consider the amendment of Mr. Fitzsimons as an indiscriminate censure levelled at these societies; he thought it only a suitable answer to a part of the President's Speech.
Mr. Parker concluded this long debate by the following remarks. He did not think that Democratic societies were so far to blame as had been imagined. He suspected that the President himself, for whose character and services he felt as much respect and gratitude as any man in America, had been misinformed on this point. It would be absurd to say, that the Western disturbances originated from the publications of Democratic societies, if it could be proved to the satisfaction of the committee, that such disturbances had begun long before any of the associations alluded to had a being. To prove this position, Mr. P. desired that the Clerk might read a passage from the letter on that affair, written by Mr. Hamilton, and which has already been published in all the newspapers. The Clerk accordingly read a part of the letter, from which Mr. P. inferred that his inference was incontestable, and he then stated the absurdity of making the Democratic publications the origin of a discontent, which existed before them. He was satisfied that the President did not wish this thing echoed; and that he would entirely disapprove of the proposed persecution. Mr. P. said, that he had the honor of being an honorary member of a Democratic society. Personally he knew nothing of the gentlemen, but he understood that they were respectable characters; and that they were friends to good order and the Federal Government, there could be no question, for when the Embargo was laid last spring, and some vessels had been attempting to get off, these vigilant citizens armed and embodied themselves, and prevented the execution of the design. With all his respect for the President, he was not to give up his opinions for the sake of any man. He was convinced that all this violent declamation and irritation in the House would do a great deal of mischief, and would have an effect exactly the reverse of what was designed by the amendment as it first stood. A gentleman (Mr. Dexter) had spoken of town meetings, as the proper vehicles for the communication of political ideas, and had drawn a comparison between these and Democratic societies. Mr. P. requested that it might be noticed, that in the Southern States there neither were nor could be such things as town meetings, because the population was too thin and too widely scattered. They were therefore to make the best of it which they could, and meet and deliberate, no matter where, whenever they found a convenient opportunity. Mr. P. expressed, in strong terms the aversion that his constituents would feel to this species of censorship. He concluded with these words: "They love your Government much, but they love their independence more."
The question was then called for on striking out the word "self-created" from the new amendment of Mr. Fitzsimons. For the amendment of Mr. Giles, ayes 47, noes 45. This amendment was therefore adopted.
Mr. Giles then proposed an amendment, after the words "combination of men," by adding, "in the four Western counties of Pennsylvania."
Mr. Hartley said, that the gentleman should have added, "and a county in Virginia." This amendment of Mr. Giles was rejected.
The committee now rose, and reported the amendments to the House.