Wednesday, January 20.
Appropriations for 1796.
The amendments from the committee being thus gone through, the bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading.[66]
Saturday, January 30.
Stenographer to the House.
The House then went into a Committee of the Whole on the report from the stenographical committee. The report was read.
Mr. Swanwick: then rose for the sake of asking information. He inquired whether the House were to sanction and authorize the reports of the proposed stenographer? He had very considerable apprehensions about the propriety of entering into the subject in any mode.
Mr. W. Smith replied, that the gentleman engaged by the committee had undertaken to have his reports ready for Mr. Brown, printer of the Philadelphia Gazette, in the morning of the succeeding day.
Mr. Swanwick rose again. He observed, that to give universal satisfaction was impracticable. So many gentlemen were to be satisfied, that it never could be accomplished. He observed that one of the principal causes of complaint against reporters was of a nature that did not admit a remedy. Gentlemen rose, in the ardor of discussion, and suffered many remarks to escape from them, which, neither in thought nor expression, were perfectly correct. If the reporter, as was his duty, took them down, and stated them exactly, gentlemen were irritated by seeing themselves exhibited in this shape, and then blame was cast on the reporter. Every degree of praise was due to the editor of a Philadelphia daily newspaper, whom Mr. S. named, and who had not only done every thing in his power to obtain the debates of the House at full length, but had frequently advertised, that if errors were committed by his reporter, they should, on application, be instantly rectified. More than this it was impossible to desire, for no mode of conduct could be more liberal or candid. But Mr. S. did not see the propriety of blending the House of Representatives and the editor of a newspaper in this business. The stenographer is to be called an officer of the House, while he receives eleven hundred dollars from the printer of a Philadelphia newspaper. He is thus also the officer of the printer, as well as ours. If we give the gentleman the proposed salary, we are to depend on him alone, whereas at present we have different reporters, and two or three of them frequently and mutually both corroborate and correct each other. What has escaped one reporter, or what he has misunderstood, is often observed by his competitor. The error is amended, or the defect supplied. Mr. S. farther observed, that as far as he had read or heard of, such an institution as the one now proposed, was never known under any Government, or in any country, that had hitherto existed. [It was observed, in some part of the debate, that an attempt of this kind was once made by the National Assembly of France.] Mr. S. expressed himself warmly against Government making any composition of the nature now proposed with a printer, and against any attempt for giving one newspaper an advantage over another, by any preference as to the copy. If Mr. S. wanted any person to be sure of dismission and disgrace, he could not name any other situation where that dismission and disgrace were so absolutely certain, as to a person accepting the proposed office of stenographer. If he did his duty, gentlemen would frequently not like to see their speeches exactly as delivered. If he altered them, his utility was at an end. It would therefore be much better to let the gentleman stay at his own business.
Mr. Giles objected particularly to the opposition made in this late stage of the business. He admitted that it was a delicate step, but he complained in strong terms of the inaccuracy of the reports now given. He observed that the object was not merely to find a stenographer who would satisfy the members of that House, but who would also give satisfactory information to the public at large.
Mr. Sherburne agreed with the gentleman last up, that the object of the resolution could not be merely to give satisfaction to members, but information to the public; though if it was important that the public should be informed of what was said in that House, the proposed resolution would be inadequate to its objects. But he conceived it more important for the public to be informed of what was done, and that, he observed, was not always to be inferred from what was said; as (the mind being always open to conviction) it had not been unusual in a former—he would not say the present—House, for gentlemen to argue one way, and vote another. As therefore, no certain inferences of the conduct of members would be drawn from their speeches, and as the public were more interested in their actions than their sayings, (a knowledge of which the present resolution was not, in his opinion, calculated to promote,) it would not meet his concurrence. But, Mr. S. further observed, that if the speech was to be considered as the infallible inditium of the subsequent conduct, as the avowed object of the resolution was to diffuse, through the various parts of the States a knowledge of that conduct, he should oppose it from a conviction that the means were not competent to the end. The resolution proposed a publication of the debates in a daily Philadelphia paper. These debates would necessarily be so voluminous as to engross the greater part of such a publication. Except in Philadelphia, New York, and one or two other large cities, there were no daily papers; in all other places, they were not published oftener than once, or, at most, twice, a week. The daily papers, in comparison with others, were few. If, therefore, a daily paper was engrossed by a detail of the debates, when would the public arrive at a knowledge of them through the more common medium of a weekly paper? The inhabitants of this, and a few other large towns, might be gratified, perhaps benefited, by a speedy perusal of them; but when would the citizens of more distant parts of the Union, through their usual weekly channels, be indulged with the like opportunities? The difference would be as one to six; and what the inhabitants of Philadelphia might become acquainted with in one year, the people of New England and Georgia would not be informed of in six years, unless they relinquished their own weekly publications for a Philadelphia paper.
Mr. Sedgwick said, that he would candidly confess that the House had put itself in a delicate situation on this subject; yet if, on the whole, gentlemen be of opinion that the measure was improper, it ought not, by reason of any antecedent conduct, to be now further pursued to the public detriment. It was also but just to say, that if the measure was proper, a more competent and more impartial agent than the one proposed could not be obtained. He said that the printers had much merit from their endeavors to communicate to the public the debates of the House, yet it must be allowed that their endeavors had been too unsuccessful; that, in consequence, much injury had been done, not only to the characters of gentlemen as men of talents, but also in some instances, to the motives which had produced public measures. These were evils to which a remedy should be applied, if it did not involve those which would be more injurious. It ought to be remembered that the man appointed would be an officer of the House, responsible to it for his fidelity and accuracy. The debates would then be published under authority of the House, and it of consequence was responsible for his precise execution of the trust. It was impossible to conceive that at some times, with the best intention, he should not mistake, and of course misrepresent. The member in such a situation, would feel the injury, but redress would be obtained only by the interposition of the House. This would afford ground for numerous appeals, and endless litigation; and, in the end, might be ruinous to many valuable and respectable characters. It was of importance that no constraint should exist which would prevent gentlemen from expressing freely and without fear their own feelings and opinions and those of their constituents. How far the fear of misrepresentation, and the difficulty of correcting it, under such a system, would produce such an effect, gentlemen he hoped would consider before they assented to this proposition.
There was one other consideration, which had great weight on the mind. Whatever opinion we might entertain on the subject at present, all would remember the powerful influence of party and faction, and their intimate connection with free governments. From hence it might be easy to conceive, that hereafter this might be rendered the most powerful engine of an unprincipled majority, to overawe and to prostrate and destroy a virtuous minority. For no character was so established as to withstand for any length of time constant misrepresentation supported by the authority of the House of Representatives.
Mr. Harper rose in reply to Mr. Sedgwick, who, immediately after he began speaking, observed that the gentleman had mistaken his meaning. Mr. H. said that he perfectly understood the member, and proceeded to recommend the object of the report. He gave credit to the present reporters for diligence and good intention, but thought them far inferior to what might be done. Great attainments had been made, he admitted, but more might be done. He thought it of the highest consequence that the speeches of members should be correctly published and disseminated among the people. As to the sum now proposed, a London newspaper would give, he had no doubt, five thousand dollars a year for such a reporter. He questioned not that Woodfall would receive ten thousand pounds a year from the printer for his reports. It had been objected that daily papers alone could hold such debates; but weekly and semi-weekly papers could select the most interesting passages of them from the daily papers. Mr. H. recommended either that this report or a similar one should be adopted, or that the business of reporting should at once be put to an end. He spoke of atrocious mistakes. The debates, as now published, held up the House to the scorn of the world. He would rather have the doors shut up altogether. He would, if the present resolution was rejected, make a motion to that effect. He was sorry to learn that the debates had been collected into a book, entitled "The Political Register," of which he doubted not that immense numbers would be sent to Europe, and this book he reprobated in the strongest terms.
Mr. Sedgwick observed, if gentlemen were misrepresented, in one of the newspapers, where debates were reported, the editor of that paper had advertised that he was ready to publish any corrections which might be offered. This notice had been long and frequently given, and gentlemen had it in their power to do themselves justice.
The first resolution in the report was then read, and the question going to be put, when
Mr. Baldwin said, that the more the House advanced into this affair, the greater was the number of difficulties which occurred. The resolutions had the less weight with him because they were hurried through at the close of last session. The institution was unprecedented in any other Government. He knew that members might be misrepresented, but this scheme would not cure the evil. He repeatedly declared, that on all great questions, where talents found an object worth exertion, the debates in that House were very well represented. He had seen many speeches, sketched by printers in this city, that he would not wish to see better done. He did not know of any recent or particular complaints about inaccuracy. We have now been in session for seven or eight weeks, and there has not occurred much interesting matter, to make any remarkable debate out of He said that the debates, if taken at full length, would far exceed the limits of any newspaper. As to the expense of printing, that of the laws of this session would cost twenty thousand dollars, and he conjectured that to print the speeches, would require a hundred thousand dollars; and even after they were printed, it would be necessary to pay people for being at the trouble to read them, for otherwise nobody would go through a perusal of every word spoken in the House.
Mr. Nicholas said, that the reports at present published were full of notorious falsehoods, and the characters of members with their constituents would have been sunk, if it had not been known that this kind of things deserved no credit. He was in favor of the report. He complained that even when pieces were sent to the printers, they were embodied in the sketch, by Which means the reporter got the full credit of them, which had pernicious consequences. One of his objections to the present mode of reporting was, that the speeches of members were often much improved. He mentioned an instance from his own experience. A speech was once made for him by a person who reports in this House, and who has a very good style of writing. The style, said Mr. N., was above mine. There was not a sentiment in it which I would have disavowed. It was a better speech than mine; but, in an entire column, there was nothing that I said. As for sending corrections to the printers, Mr. N. was above it.
Mr. Hillhouse was against the report. The loss of four thousand dollars would be a much greater harm to the public than any injury arising from inaccurate reports. He did not see that the characters of members with their constituents depended on these publications.
Mr. Swanwick.—The gentleman from Virginia last up has suggested that the House have somehow committed themselves to appoint a stenographer, by their previous resolution on this subject; but that resolution goes only to the committee receiving proposals. It therefore remains with this House whether to accept them or not when made. As to the gentleman who is the subject of the resolution, if I have more strenuously than usual opposed the motion, it is from a desire to keep him from quitting the lucrative situation he is said to find himself in, to embark on the stormy sea he is contemplating. To be the organ of the members of this House to their constituents is indeed a very delicate task; one for which, considering the danger he might be in of an Orpheus's fate—that of being torn to pieces—the salary is but a poor compensation. He is to do justice to the eloquence of some members; he is to clothe in an elegant dress the uncouth, yet well-meaning expressions of others; but what will he do with the silent members, who never speak at all? What will their constituents think of them? Indeed, sir, if he has the idea I have formed of his danger, he will not undertake it at all. Faction and party have been mentioned: happy stenographer, if he can keep clear of these! If he fall into their power, insensibly he will represent one side in clouds and darkness, the other as ornamented with the brightest beams of light. How will he please both? Misrepresentation is complained of: alas, sir, how quick is error—how slow is the progress of truth in almost all things! Our stenographer must indeed be a wonder-working man, if he can revert this tide, and make every where light and correct reasoning prevail. The best mode of informing our constituents is, by the yeas and nays on our acts; this truly shows, as a gentleman from new Hampshire has observed, our doings, which are much more interesting to them than our abstract reasonings; these our constituents will easily form to themselves ideas of, when they know our votes; as the celebrated Dr. Johnson is said to have written speeches for members of Parliament whose general political sentiments he knew; by knowing these he applied arguments pretty accurately, as he supposed them to bear on every question offered. But, it has been observed, if we do not agree to have an official stenographer, a motion will be made to clear the House of those who now take down debates. These persons are tolerated only on the principle that our galleries are open. Woodfall, a celebrated printer, took down debates from memory: could we prevent this being done here? Or should we drive all printers from us who take notes, for the inaccuracies of some? I hope not. The liberty of the press has great title to respect. How can we agree by a miscellaneous union, the most strange, to commute with Mr. Brown, the printer, the salary of four thousand dollars, so as to possess him first of the proof-sheets, without supposing other printers will become rivals of this business, and complain if they are thwarted in an equal pursuit of their own livelihood? The best way is, to leave this business, like others, to regulate itself. Mr. Brown, by his labor in this way, has already widely extended the circulation of his paper—evident in his present overture—and, by the by, this is no mean proof of correctness on the whole in his success; he or others will still go on to improve the business, if left to themselves. If he or they fall into errors, they are their own. Members may correct them, or write their own speeches out, if they please. But what has the House to do with this; or why should it become the censor and promulgator of the speeches of its own members? Our time is wasted often, already, by too many long discussions on unimportant objects; but what would it be if we were to be every morning saluted with motions to correct the performances of the stenographers of the preceding day? All the advantage of the motion is to obtain more accuracy; but, it is said, the House means not to pledge itself for this accuracy: if so, why employ an officer under its authority for this purpose? On the whole, sir, we shall in vain seek to escape abuse and misrepresentation; these are by far too much in vogue. All the consolation left is, what I usually apply in such cases—that is, the consciousness of not deserving them.
Mr. Gilbert was against the report. He thought the publication of the laws and the yeas and nays, a sufficient means to communicate the proceedings of the House.
Mr. Wm. Lyman said that the debates in one of the newspapers (he either named or plainly alluded to the Philadelphia Gazette) had, for the two last sessions, been altogether exceptionable. He was sorry to learn, that these debates had been collected by a person who comes here, so that they would now, perhaps, descend to posterity. If they were as incorrect in the volume (the Political Register) as they were in the newspaper, they were a libel on that House, and would disgrace it with the world. If this resolution was rejected, it would be advisable to send all the printers to the gallery.
Mr. Kitchell was entirely against the object of the report.
Mr. Giles said, that he might have taken up wrong impressions, but he thought the matter worth trying. It was a thing of experiment, by which he believed that the printer would make money. He acknowledged that, for some time past, several of the reports had been pretty correct. It is better to let them go out as they are, than to stop them altogether. He would not wish to press the motion, if it was to meet with opposition from several gentlemen who had this day spoken against it. He moved that the committee should rise, and the further consideration of the report be deferred till Monday.
Mr. W. Smith said, it was admitted on all sides, that it was highly important for the people to receive the most accurate information of the proceedings of the House, and that the debates were, in general, extremely misrepresented. Was it not, then, the duty of the House to remedy this evil, and to adopt such measures as would transmit to the people in every part of the United States the most accurate information of the conduct of their Representatives? The House had now an opportunity of obtaining the services of a gentleman peculiarly distinguished for the rare talent of reporting with accuracy public debates; the compensation which would be adequate to such useful and laborious service, was beyond the ability of any printer; the House ought therefore to contribute towards it; the sum required was a trifle, when compared with the advantages; it was no object. The only question, then, was, whether the stenographer ought to be an officer of the House; in that capacity he certainly would be more easily restrained from the commission of any wilful misrepresentation. Mr. S. did not feel the force of the objections against the report. It had been said that, although the members were now misrepresented, yet, they had it in their power to publish corrections; but these corrections were often overlooked, while the misrepresentation was operating very injuriously to the character of the member; this was generally the case in places remote from the seat of Government; the mangled account of a debate was republished in a distant paper, and the correction, if it reached the distant printer, was generally disregarded. Among the opponents to this report, Mr. S. said he was surprised to find the gentleman who represented this city, (Mr. Swanwick,) who, more than any other member, should have withdrawn his opposition to the measure proposed; that gentleman's constituents had it in their power, at any time, to hear the debates of Congress; they were on the spot; ought he not, then, in candor, to assist in facilitating to the remote citizens the means of obtaining the best knowledge of the proceedings, and the most correct statement of the discussions of the House? Ought they, from their remoteness, to be kept in the dark, or to be furnished with such light as would only mislead? Had they not a claim on the House to adopt such means as would enable the citizens in every State to judge of the propriety of public measures? The member from this city had another exclusive advantage; if misrepresented, he could correct the error, and the correction would be read; that was not the case with the members from the remoter States, whose reputation might be injured by misrepresentation, without a similar advantage: the member from this city was in the midst of his constituents; he had daily opportunities of setting right any misstatement by personal explanation.
Mr. Smith said, he did not agree with some gentlemen, that it was sufficient for the people to know what laws were passed, without knowing the previous discussions; he thought, on the contrary, the favorable or unfavorable impression of a law on the public mind, would depend, in a great degree, on the reasons assigned for and against it in debate, and the people ought to know those reasons. When a law passes, imposing a tax, would not the people be reconciled if they saw, from the discussions of the House, that such tax was unavoidable, and that the particular mode of taxation was the best which could be devised? And ought this information to depend entirely on the caprice or convenience of the reporters, who attended when it pleased them, and who published just as much of the debate as they found leisure or patience to accomplish? Mr. S. said he was convinced that the errors which had excited so much complaint, were not the effect of design, but merely of inadequacy to the task. Very few were competent to such a business, which required peculiar skill in stenography, very laborious application, and a clear comprehension of the subject-matter of debate. It could not be expected that persons thus qualified would devote their whole time to this business, without an ample reward. The report was objected to because there was novelty in the plan; it was true the House of Commons of England had no such officer, but their practice was not a fit precedent for us on this occasion, for they admitted no person to write down, in the House, their proceedings; their debates were taken from memory. This House, on the contrary, had, from its first institution, facilitated, by every accommodation, the reporting their proceedings. The thing was not altogether, however, without precedent. During the existence of the National Assembly of France, there were officers of the House who composed a daily work called the Logography, which was an exact account of the debates of that body. It had been asked, what control the House were to have over this officer? He answered that the stenographer would be liable to be censured or displaced, if he should be guilty of wilful misrepresentation. It would be always easy to discriminate between a casual inadvertence and a criminal misstatement; the officer's character and talents, his responsibility to the House, and his oath to report with impartiality, would be a sufficient pledge of his accuracy. Mr. S. seriously believed that the character of the House had suffered from the erroneous statements which had gone abroad. He wished to guard against this evil in future; he was willing, for himself, that every syllable he uttered within those walls should be carried to every part of the Union, but he deprecated misrepresentation. He was anxious that the truth should be known in relation to every act of the Government; for he was as satisfied that the affection and confidence of the people in this Government would increase with the promulgation of truth, as that whatever it had lost of that affection and confidence, was owing altogether to the propagation of detraction and calumny. It was under these impressions that he had originally brought forward the proposition and that he now recommended the report, and having heard no reasons to change his sentiments of the expediency of the measure, he should persist in supporting it.
The motion by Mr. Giles was agreed to. The committee rose, and, a few minutes after, the House adjourned to Monday.