Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 2 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Monday, January 15.

Naval Expenditure.

Mr. Gallatin stated the different estimates which had been made to the House. In 1794, he said, they were told that $688,000 would be sufficient to build six frigates. In 1796, they were informed there had been a mistake in the matter, but that with $80,000 more three would be finished. In January, 1797, the House was again called upon for $172,000; in July, in the same year, for $200,000, and now for $150,000 more. Such calculations, he thought, wholly unaccountable.

Mr. Nicholas did not understand what the gentleman from Connecticut meant by saying that this was wholly Executive business. He did not believe, because the President had told the House that he was about to hold a treaty, that the money must be granted, and that the House had no choice whether they would appropriate it or not. From what had already been said upon the subject, he doubted not there was a pretty general disposition to grant the money; but it was not proper that the Message should be sent to the Committee of Ways and Means, as if an appropriation was a thing of course; to do this, would be to act at the command of the President of the United States; whereas the House could only act upon the full exercise of its discretion. He therefore moved that the Message be referred to the Committee of the Whole, which had already this subject under consideration.

Mr. Gallatin believed the gentleman from Connecticut had not considered this subject with his usual correctness. That gentleman had said that the Message before them ought to go to the Committee of Ways and Means, and that an appropriation should follow as a thing of course. It must be known that this was contrary to the practice of that House, or of any former Legislature of the United States. On the contrary, it was usual, first to authorize an expense, and in the next place to appropriate; and in no case had the business been reversed. If the Message were referred to the Committee of Ways and Means, all they could do, would be to bring it back to the House, and ask for an authority for the expense. He believed the gentleman from Connecticut had been led into this mistake by considering the Message announcing the intention of the President to hold a treaty as a treaty made; and had that been the case, according to that gentleman's known opinion, he would consider the House as bound to make the necessary appropriation; but he desired him to recollect that no treaty was yet made; and, therefore, that that doctrine could not apply in the present case.

Mr. Rutledge did not believe it was necessary or proper for that House to authorize the President to hold a treaty; but if it were necessary for him to hold a treaty, the concurrence of that House was necessary to enable him to do it, as it could not be done without money. It was requisite, therefore, to pass a bill, not to authorize the President to hold a treaty, but to enable him to do it. It was best, therefore, for the communication first to go to the Committee of the Whole, and afterwards to the Committee of Ways and Means, in order for them to say where the money could be got. There was something in this case which pointed out this mode as peculiarly proper, as there seemed to be a disposition in the House, if the treaty should not succeed agreeably to the wishes of the President, to afford temporary relief to the persons now suffering from being driven from their land. The gentleman from Connecticut had said, that the Committee of Ways and Means could report an estimate of the probable expense which would be incurred in holding the treaty; but if he attended to the Message of the President, he would find that this estimate was to be laid before the House by the proper department, so that there was no necessity of a reference to any committee for that purpose.

The motion for a reference to the Committee of the Whole was carried, without a division.

William Alexander.

On motion of Mr. Gregg, the House went into a Committee of the Whole on the report of the Committee of Claims on the petition of William Alexander, surveyor of Army lands. After reading a number of papers relative to the subject, the report, which went to authorize the Treasury to settle the accounts of the petitioner, was agreed to, the committee rose, the House concurred, and a bill was directed to be brought in accordingly.

General Kosciusko.

Mr. Pinckney, from the committee appointed to confer with the Senate on the disagreement between the two Houses on the bill for the payment of interest to General Kosciusko, reported, that finding the business could be settled in a manner equally advantageous to the General, by agreeing to the amendment of the Senate, as by the mode originally proposed, the committee recommend it to the House to recede from their disagreement to the Senate's amendment.

The recommendation was concurred in by the House.

Civil Appropriation for 1798.

On motion of Mr. Harper, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the report of the Committee of Ways and Means for providing for the expenses of the civil department for the year 1798, and the blanks being filled (except in a few cases, in which they were left in blank) according to the estimate which had been laid before the House, the committee rose, the House concurred, and the bill was ordered to be reported accordingly.