Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 2 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Monday, January 21.

Intercourse with France, and her Islands.

San Domingo.

The fourth section of the bill to suspend this intercourse being under consideration,

Mr. Nicholas said, there are some words in this section [in italics] which he did not understand, and if he could not get an explanation of them in any other way, he would move to strike them out. They are not in the former law; and they are very extensive. They go to this, that a man in authority in one of these islands, be his authority as limited as it may, may make an agreement on the subject of intercourse different from what he is authorized to do by the Republic of France, and, in that case, the island is to be open for our commerce. He wished for some information on this subject.

Mr. S. Smith understood, that the reason why these words had been introduced into the bill was, in order to meet the case of Hispaniola.[38] It was well known that a new agent had succeeded Hedouville there; that he has published a proclamation, stating, that notwithstanding the decree of the French Republic, which directs the seizure of all American vessels and their cargoes, whenever there shall be found on board an article of British manufacture, he was authorized to suspend that decree so far as relates to vessels coming to that island. And, Mr. S. said, if any agent in the West Indies could give assurances that no capture should take place from the island of which he is Governor, then the President shall be authorized to open our commerce with that Island. It was on this ground that he had given his consent to this clause of the bill.

Mr. Nicholas said, if the clause were intended to meet the case to which the gentleman had alluded, the agent had his powers from the French Government, and whatever he did must be considered as done by that Government, until his power shall be revoked; but as the clause stood, it would authorize the President to treat with usurpers; not merely with persons in power, but with any persons having momentary possession of a place, and he could not agree to such a principle. Why, asked Mr. N., was this law originally passed? Was it not an order to bring France to terms by distressing her islands? Suppose France should say to one of her agents in the West Indies, "You shall be authorized to make a stipulation with the United States to take off the suspension of intercourse with respect to your Island." Would not this be to acknowledge that there our regulation pinched her? And would not the opening of intercourse with such a place, by relieving the distresses of France, defeat the original intention of the law? [Mr. Harper asked if there was any question before the committee?] Mr. N. said he would make one by moving to strike out this section. A clause of this kind, Mr. N. said, held out an invitation to agents to abandon their country, and to set up Governments of their own. If it were to operate only in a partial manner, for the relief of such of the French islands as are so far distressed as that the Government should be willing to restrain her depredations, so far as related to those particular places, where will be the efficiency of the law afterwards? It will only prove a burden upon our own citizens, without injuring France. If we are to have a free trade with the West Indies, why deprive tobacco planters of going immediately to the country where the article is consumed, instead of going through Spain, and by other circuitous routes? But the other aspect of the bill, Mr. N. said, was the most extraordinary and exceptionable he ever saw. It authorized the President to treat with persons "claiming authority." This provision may produce consequences the most fatal. Suppose any of the islands make a separate negotiation with this country; what will be the effect of our having thus enticed them to disobey their Government? Will this Government not be chargeable with having assisted in detaching such a colony from its Government? And if so, could any thing afford a more lasting cause for war than an act of this kind? If there be any disposition in the French Government to treat, (which, however, the Secretary of State denies,) a conduct of this kind would effectually root it out, and there could be no treaty—no peace between the two countries—for years to come. If gentlemen, therefore, can give no better explanation of this clause than has already been given, he hoped it would be stricken out.

Mr. Otis did not believe that a more unjustifiable jealousy ever entered the heated imagination of the gentleman from Virginia, than that which occupies it at this moment. He seems to think that this section of the bill is intended only to encourage usurpation and rebellion, whereas a slight attention should convince him, that when any one of the French islands or dependencies revolt and declare for independence, neither the law passed the last session nor this bill will apply to such a case. In such an event, there is nothing in the existing laws to prevent our carrying on a free trade with such revolted island. If attention be paid to the first section of the bill, it will be seen to apply only to such places as are under the acknowledged government of France; and the moment a place is no longer under her government, both the existing law and this section become null with respect to that place, and a new relation would be created which would be regulated under the law of nations. If a rebellion of this kind should break out, it would become a question to what extent we ought to carry on commerce with the rebellious place; and we should then be governed by existing circumstances. If we should be at war with France, we should doubtless, said Mr. O., avail ourselves of the trade to its full extent, without respect to her wishes; but if an accommodation of differences should be effected, and the mother country should prohibit all trade with the revolters, it is not presumable that this Government would sanction any commerce that would provoke a war, or protect adventurers from the seizure and confiscation of their property.

But it is not enough, observed Mr. O., to say that this section does not relate to rebellious colonies; it is merely a provision to meet such conditions as the agents of the Executive Directory are entitled to make, consistently with their allegiance to their own country—such at least as they constantly undertake to propose. Without assuming to define the powers of these agents, it was very clear that they have undertaken to dispense with the decrees and laws of the Republic, whenever the exigencies of their Governments have, in their opinion, made it necessary or convenient.

At St. Domingo and at Guadaloupe, the agents seem to exercise an unlimited control over the trade and maritime concerns of those islands. He presumed they had a discretionary right given to them to relax or suspend many of the decrees of the mother country, with respect to the territory they are appointed to govern. The uniform conduct of Santhonax and Polverel, and of all the Commissioners at St. Domingo, show this to be the case; and at Guadaloupe, Victor Hugues has proved himself to be nothing less than a despot. If this bill passed, these Commissioners may open the commerce with this country, even though an open war should exist between this nation and France. Nay, Mr. O. said, he had a proclamation of Hedouville, the late agent at Cape Francois, in his hand, which shows that he had determined to adopt this line of conduct.

[Mr. O. read the proclamation which states that neutral ships and cargoes, that provisions and dry goods, shall be admitted into St. Domingo in American bottoms, that they shall not be seized when destined for French ports, but pass unmolested by French cruisers even if war should break out between the mother country and the United States.]

Now, said Mr. O., the interests of this country, and of our mercantile citizens in particular, require us to place ourselves in a situation to meet these advances. Can there be any difficulty in giving to the President a power with respect to the trade with a part of the French dominions, which he at present possesses over the whole? Gentlemen have said that an agent has arrived from a usurper in St. Domingo. Mr. O. said he did not know the fact. He did not know of any usurper in St. Domingo. He believed General Toussaint had succeeded Hedouville in the government of that island; that he had, in imitation of his superiors, sent him off in the same way as in the mother country are sent off those who may be obnoxious to the designs of the reigning and the strongest party. But it does not follow that these measures of General Toussaint will not be ratified by the French Government. The same General had heretofore sent off the commissioner Santhonax. He was not, however, for this cause declared to have forfeited his allegiance, but pains were taken to appease and reconcile him, and Santhonax came back. He was afterwards succeeded by Hedouville, who is, in his turn, sent on a voyage to France. But, said Mr. O., shall we now begin to examine into the legality of the powers of persons in authority, either in France or in her West India possessions? Have we not uniformly adhered to the principle that those who exercise power de facto are the only persons that we are bound to recognize? From the first dawn of the Revolution, we have, said he, never questioned the legitimacy of the power exercised in France; to us it seemed indifferent whether Jacobins or Girondists were at the helm of affairs; whether it was a reign of terror or of moderation. We have constantly sung hosannas and offered adorations to the great Republic, one and indivisible, without considering by whose hands the power was exercised. It is now too late to change this system. We have no way of knowing, said Mr. O., whether the agents of the Directory act in conformity to the will of their masters or not, until the Government declares them out of their allegiance. It will then be soon enough for us to determine the posture which good faith and policy require us to take.

But, the gentleman from Virginia says, we ought not to treat with individuals under any circumstances; but it appears probable that the French Republic may permit her agents to carry on this commerce, and to give us satisfactory assurances of safety and protection without a treaty; and such an arrangement would be advantageous to that Republic.

We find, indeed, said Mr. O., from the papers on the table, that one of the complaints of that Government is founded on this suspension of intercourse, and therefore to restore the trade in part is to diminish the cause of complaint. With respect to the remark of the gentleman from Virginia, that it was the object of the original act, by distressing France, to bring her to terms, he differed in opinion from him. It was merely a defensive measure. Our trade became so insecure, that it was necessary to do—what? conquer France? No; but to prevent the ruin which threatened our citizens, by prohibiting all intercourse with that country and its dependencies; and whenever an end is put to those aggressions and depredations, the suspension may be removed.

This, said Mr. O., is not a novel practice. At the commencement of the late war, the citizens of the Bahamas were excepted from the general regulations and orders prescribed to our privateers. It is very possible to be at war with a nation, and yet at peace with a certain portion of its territory. We find, by the papers on our table, that France says her privateers have transgressed their authority, and that they have now determined that no commissions shall be issued, except by their agents. Let us be prepared to meet them, if they will act accordingly; and if their agents in the Colonies restrain privateering, and depredations within their respective jurisdictions, let us avail ourselves of their good dispositions without any nice inquiries.

Mr. O. had said, that this law had no allusion to any country in rebellion; but he could conceive it possible that St. Domingo may declare itself independent, and become so, in spite of the opposition of France, or the wishes of this country. Far be it from me, continued Mr. O., to contend that it is desirable for the interest of the United States that such an event should happen; such a doctrine at this moment would be unseasonable and improper; but, if it does take place, he might say, without offence, it would be good policy to be upon the best terms with the persons in authority there; if not, the inhabitants of that island may become pirates upon our trade, and do us more mischief than we formerly suffered from the Barbary Powers. To prevent which, let us feed and clothe them, and deprive them of inducements to quit their island.

Mr. Harper did not know that he could give an explanation of this section which would be satisfactory to the gentleman from Virginia; but he would state what was the intention of the bill, and what he thought would be its effects. He conceived that the section now under consideration is in strict conformity with the bill heretofore passed. The object of that bill was twofold; first, to save our commerce from that speculative and hazardous enterprise which the high profits made by successful voyages enticed the merchant to go into, which was a species of gambling by which some made large fortunes, and others sustained heavy losses. This trade was something of the nature of faro-banks, or lotteries, which all good Governments have thought proper to prohibit. The Government of this country thought it wise to interfere, and say to the merchants: "You shall not run these great risks; for though a few of you make great gain by the trade, the loss upon the whole is much greater than the gain." This was one object. The other was, to deter the French nation, and those exercising authority under it, from committing depredations upon our commerce, and thus procure protection to our trade. By what means was this to be accomplished? By withholding from the French those articles of prime necessity which they were accustomed to receive through the medium of commerce, to produce an effect which they should feel.

Let us examine, said Mr. H., whether this section is in conformity to these two objects. There could be no doubt with respect to the first, because if you can prevail upon those who heretofore encouraged privateering, to forbear to make further depredations, our commerce will unquestionably be rendered safe. The reason, therefore, for laying the restriction, is thus removed; and he saw no reason why it should be continued.

Mr. Gallatin said, one of the objects of this bill when it passed at the last session, was to prevent depredations upon our commerce; but a majority of the House who voted for it, did so with a view of compelling France, by the loss of our trade to her islands, to come to reasonable terms of settlement with the United States. It was then said by some gentlemen, that it was not improbable that the trade to the West Indies was even more advantageous to the United States than to France, valuable as it was to her; and that, therefore, it would not produce the effect predicted. This was his opinion, and he therefore voted against the bill. But, though he voted against this measure, and some others, which, he thought at the time premature, yet a majority of Congress having, by adopting them, placed the nation in its present situation, whatever his opinion might then have been, and whatever it might now be, as to the probability of an end being put to our differences with France, he should think it bad policy, under present circumstances, to recede from the ground then taken, since such a conduct could betray nothing but weakness, and tend to defeat the object which all doubtless have in view, whatever might be the different opinions of obtaining it, an honorable peace. Though this law, therefore, was limited to the present session, he was ready to vote for a continuance of it; but the section now under consideration goes entirely upon new ground, and entirely different to any either taken or avowed at the last session.

The law now in existence, said Mr. G., has a section something similar to this, though widely different in substance. It is to this effect; that if, before the next session of Congress, the Government of France, and all persons under its authority, shall disavow and be found to refrain from depredations upon our commerce, then it shall be lawful for the President to suspend the operation of this law. Not to any part, but with the whole. By that law, we said, "We are not yet at war with you, we will adopt such measures as we think necessary for our present situation. We will suspend commerce with you as a nation; but if you, as a nation, shall disavow and refrain from depredations, we have given the President power to renew our commercial intercourse with you."

But what, said Mr. G., is the language of this section? It is this. [He read the section as above.] It is, that if any part of the nation, or any commanding officer, or person claiming authority, in any one port, or island, shall take those steps which we consider necessary for that nation to take, it shall be lawful for the President to remit and discontinue the restraints, prohibitions, &c. Instead of taking a general national ground, it provides for the negotiation of an individual, on his private account, who may either exercise, or claim to exercise, authority in any island, &c.

We are not, said Mr. G., at war, and an act of this kind is an act which, if it can be justified at all, can only be made use of in a state of war. It is only in such a state that we are authorized to declare, that we will act a different part with certain parts of a country at war, from what we meant to act with the whole; that we will negotiate, treat, make specific regulations with private individuals, provided they shall do—what? Disavow what the French Republic does not disavow. The present act makes it necessary for the disavowal to come from the Government; but this section says, "that although the French Government shall not disavow or restrain her depredations, &c., yet if an individual shall do it, we will open a trade with this individual." This would be to encourage insurrections. It is establishing a doctrine which is reprobated almost every day on this floor—that it is right to divide a people from their Government.

Mr. G. conceived, therefore, that the question comes to this: Is it proper to give power to the President, under our present circumstances, to stipulate with certain agents, that in case they will disobey their Government, by declaring themselves independent, or by throwing themselves into other hands, we will renew our commercial intercourse with you? No man, said Mr. G., will deny that a trade of this kind would be advantageous to the United States; he believed it to be one of the most lucrative branches of our commerce; but it was nevertheless thought proper, at the last session, to suspend it, in order, as then supposed, to effect a greater good. Therefore, this commerce being advantageous to the United States, is not a sufficient reason why this measure should be taken, if it be wrong in itself, and may produce greater mischiefs than the trade can do us good.

What, said Mr. G., are the inconveniences which would arise from a measure of this kind? It must be allowed, in the first place, that it would give the lie to all our former declarations of abhorrence against the attempts of other countries to divide the people of a nation from their Government; for we here, said he, assume the ground that it is proper to negotiate and stipulate with a part of the people, with a certain district of a country, with any person who shall choose to say that he claims the right of governing in any place. We abandon the general ground of treating with a foreign Government, and determine to treat with any individual who may either have, or claim to have, authority. Mr. G. believed a principle of this kind at all times improper; and it would be peculiarly improper in us to act upon it, with respect to a nation, against which we have so many grounds of complaint of this kind. He had already stated, that it could only be justified in a state of war, if then, to hold out encouragement to insurrection and rebellion to the colonies of another country.

Mr. G. believed he might go so far as to say that this section was not inserted to meet the case spoken of by the gentleman from Maryland; but for the admission of one which had been a subject of discussion in the newspapers for some time past. He meant what was generally understood by the mission of Toussaint, a black General, of St. Domingo. It had been asserted, from the moment of the arrival of a supposed agent, that he came here with the late Consul of the United States at that port; that he brought despatches from Toussaint to our Government. Further than this, we have seen, in some of the newspapers printed at the eastward, that this mission is likely to have some effect. We have seen it there stated, "that the President is neither rash nor diffident, and that good effects may be expected to flow from this mission." So far, on the authority of the public newspapers, and none of these assertions have been denied.

Should I be doing right, said Mr. G., to say that I believe that this section of the bill is an effect of that negotiation? It is true I only deduce this from probability, but the probability is strong. Mr. G. said he knew that the independence of St. Domingo had been a favorite theme with gentlemen, and they had made an appeal upon it to the avarice of the people of the United States, that, in case of war, this independence would be of advantage to the United States, and that, during a time of peace, the minds of the people ought to be prepared for this event. But gentlemen seem to think that the public mind is not yet ready for this change, or they do not choose to avow the object of this mission. Which, he could not tell; but he would advise those gentlemen who have received information on this subject to communicate it. Mr. G. said he should be happy to know the subject of the despatches of General Toussaint. What is his offer to our Government? Whether his ideas go to independence or not? Whether he is in any way connected with the British Government, or not? Whether the sudden and extraordinary evacuation of St. Domingo by General Maitland was to promote something of this kind, or to support the force of General Toussaint? He should wish to know what is the disposition of the Executive with respect to this business, so far as it shall have come to the knowledge of any of these gentlemen. He would also be glad to know the disposition of this agent, or the nature of his object, at least so much of it as may have escaped at any petit soupér or dinér, at which these gentlemen may have been parties? If any such information could be obtained, it might tend to throw some light upon the subject. If he should be mistaken in his views of it, it would be wholly owing to his being deprived of that information, which he believed either the Executive, or some of the members on this floor possess.

Mr. G. believed the object of this section is to give encouragement to the black General in his present views. A single sentiment had dropped from the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Otis) in the course of the debate, which had given rise to part of what he had said on this subject, and which led him to believe that he had some information which he ought to communicate. He said, "if St. Domingo should finally be independent, it was proper to cultivate a good understanding with that island at present, and not refuse"—what? "to hold out certain encouragement to them in such an event." When? Now; so that we are not only to cultivate a good understanding with St. Domingo, if it should become independent, but in the expectation of it, and before it takes place, it is proper to cultivate a good understanding with that island, by holding out the encouragement proposed by this bill. This was nothing less than to confess that this section is inserted in the bill to encourage Toussaint to declare the island independent. Nay, his views, if he is a man of sense, must go further; he must not only secure a temporary trade, but he would also desire to know whether it be the wish of this country that St. Domingo should become independent; because he should suppose that if the Government of the United States was opposed to such an event, a temporary trade would not be a sufficient inducement to him to throw off his present allegiance.

To me, however, said Mr. G., if it be the intention of the General to declare it, the independence of St. Domingo is a very problematical event. It would certainly be the interest of Great Britain to oppose an attempt of this kind; since it could not be her interest to have a black Government there. But supposing the event possible, he should consider it as extremely injurious to the interests of the United States. Suppose that island, with its present population, under present circumstances, should become an independent State. What is this population? It is known to consist, almost altogether, of slaves just emancipated, of men who received their first education under the lash of the whip, and who have been initiated to liberty only by that series of rapine, pillage, and massacre, that have laid waste and deluged that island in blood; of men, who, if left to themselves, if altogether independent, are by no means likely to apply themselves to the peaceable cultivation of the country, but will try to continue to live, as heretofore, by plunder and depredations. No man, said Mr. G., wishes more than I do to see an abolition of slavery, when it can be properly effected; but no man would be more unwilling than I to constitute a whole nation of freed slaves, who had arrived to the age of thirty years, and thus to throw so many wild tigers on society.[39] If the population of St. Domingo can remain free in that island, he had no objection; but, however free, he did not wish to have them independent, and he would rather see them under a government that would be likely to keep them where they are, and prevent them from committing depredations out of the island. But if they were left to govern themselves, they might become more troublesome to us, in our commerce to the West Indies, than the Algerines ever were in the Mediterranean; they might also become dangerous neighbors to the Southern States, and an asylum for renegadoes from those parts.

This being the case, Mr. G. said, he must deprecate every encouragement which may be held out to produce such an event. Did not gentlemen recollect what an alarm was sounded last year, with respect to the probability of an invasion of the Southern States from the West Indies; an alarm upon which some of the strongest measures of the last session were grounded? Mr. G. could not help hoping, there would be a general wish not to take any measure which may embody so dangerous a description of men in our neighborhood, whose object may be plunder, and who might visit the States of South Carolina and Georgia, and spread their views among the negro people there, and excite dangerous insurrections among them. He did not wish, therefore, to see this black population independent; and that the interest will be wholly black is clear. The General is black, and his agent here is married to a black woman in this city. Mr. G. did not mean by this to throw any reflection upon the General. He believed he had behaved well to Americans. His remarks were general, and were only intended to show that it would be with a black population we must treat.