Wednesday, January 23.
Mr. S. Smith said, that if he thought with the gentleman from Pennsylvania, that the clause under consideration was connected with the mission from Toussaint, and the separation of Hispaniola from France, or with an intention of dividing the people of that island from their Government, he should also be opposed to it; but believing, as he did, that it would be productive of none but good effects to this country, he was in favor of retaining the clause.[40]
It might be well, Mr. S. said, to take a view of the relation which had subsisted between France and her colonies for some years back. Early in the Revolution, Santhonax and Polverel were sent as Commissioners to Hispaniola, for the purpose of governing the island, and to carry into effect the decree of the French Government for liberating the slaves. They conducted themselves in a friendly manner towards America, but destructively to the northern part of Hispaniola, and particularly towards Cape Francois. The disastrous contest which took place between the whites and blacks, to the destruction of the former, is well known. From the abuse of their power, these Commissioners were recalled. Polverel had not sufficient courage to appear before the French Government, and put an end to his existence. Santhonax went to France, and was sent out again to the island. Still he was favorable to this country, until the decree of France declared that their vessels of war should treat neutral vessels in the same manner as neutral powers suffered Great Britain to treat them. Santhonax then issued his decree of December, 1797, and American vessels were taken and carried into Hispaniola indiscriminately, and unsuspectingly, not under the authority of France, but under the authority of this agent. Not content with this abuse of his power, Santhonax sent Deforneaux, the Commissioner of Guadaloupe, to the south side of Hispaniola, to carry his plans into effect there; but Rigaud, a man of color, and an honest man, who had gained the esteem of the people, who was in power there, frustrated the attempt. Deforneaux attempted to escape, but was taken and sent to France. We see, therefore, that Santhonax made no scruple to set aside the decrees of France; and in this manner has Rigaud ever done, repealing and preventing the execution of the decrees of France, whenever he disliked them. And was Rigaud punished by France for thus exercising his power or not? No; he was made Commander-in-chief of the south side of the island for having sent off Deforneaux. Hedouville succeeded Santhonax in the Government, and brought with him the power to execute or not, as he judged proper, the decree of the Directory directing the capture of neutral vessels with British manufactures on board. He determined that this decree should not be carried into effect against vessels bound to Hispaniola. Did he carry his purpose into effect? So far as his (Mr. S.'s) information went, he did.
Here, then, we see Hedouville setting aside the decrees of France; and Rigaud has not only prevented American vessels from being condemned, but has thrown the captains of privateers into prison for daring to bring in American vessels, and has caused such as have been carried into Jacquemel, on account of not having a rôle d'equipage, to be delivered up immediately. Victor Hugues, upon the recall of Mr. Adet, ordered that all vessels carrying on trade to what he called rebel ports, should be brought in and made legal prizes of. This was another separate authority. He afterwards issued orders for the condemnation of vessels coming into Guadaloupe with a supercargo, who should either be an Irish or a Scotchman, though they had every necessary paper on board to show that they were bound to that port, and vessels were condemned for this alone; and this is not seen in any of the decrees of France. Mr. S. understood this clause as intended to meet cases of this kind; and, so far from this being offensive to France, it must be quite the reverse. Under this law, said Mr. S., the President will be enabled to say to these special agents, "if you will suspend your decrees with respect to your islands our trade shall be opened to you," and by this means give to our citizens a commerce which is a mine of gold to them. Such a conduct, he thought, must appear to every one perfectly reasonable.
The gentleman from Pennsylvania says that the independence of Hispaniola would be dangerous to the Southern States. But does this bill, said Mr. S., contemplate any such thing? Does it not say that the agents must be under the Government of France? If the island were to declare itself independent, we could not, said he, prevent our merchants from trading with it; or if it should be in a state of rebellion, they would trade with it at all risks, without coming under this act. This bill seems, instead of encouraging the independence of the island, to place an obstacle in the way of it. It promises to the commanding officer the trade of this country, so long as he remains attached to France, and forbears to depredate upon our commerce; but the moment he declares himself independent, that promise is no longer binding.
Certain words in this clause are complained of; and Mr. S. owned he did not like them himself. He meant the words, "shall clearly disavow;" and, if this motion should not prevail, he would move to strike them out. He should be satisfied if the islands refrained from depredating upon our trade, without making any disavowal. Mr. S. said he could by no means bring his mind to believe that this clause could give encouragement to the people of Hispaniola to rebel against their country. Toussaint, said he, is not the only Governor of that island. Rigaud, who, as he had already stated, is a man of color and a man of excellent character, who has great hold of the affections of the people, and whose attachments are also strong to the French Government, has also a considerable share of authority; and Toussaint, in his opinion, would not on this account dare to declare the island independent.
But suppose, said Mr. S., this independence were to take place, would all the danger to this country actually take place which has been stated? In his opinion the reverse would be true. Refuse to these people our commerce, and the provisions of which they stand in need, and you compel them to become pirates and dangerous neighbors to the Southern States; but, so long as you supply them, they will turn their attention to the cultivation of their plantations. If, on the contrary, they once get a taste for plunder, they will never settle to labor.
Mr. S. observed that it was the other day said that truth was the characteristic of the Federal party. It might be so, though he had found it otherwise; but the characteristics of party, he observed, always is detraction, suspicion, and jealousy, whether it be called this or that. On the present occasion he found jealousy and doubts had intruded on the minds of gentlemen who would, at other times, see very differently. He did not mean to throw any censure upon them on this account, because they doubtless believe themselves right. This party spirit, said Mr. S., is every where to be found. The gentleman from Connecticut had the other day said that he (Mr. S.) had constantly voted against every measure of defence, yet if he would have read the journals, he would have found the reverse the fact. [The Chairman doubted whether this was connected with the question.][41] Mr. S. concluded by saying that the more gentlemen think on the subject, the more they will be convinced the bill is not pregnant with the mischiefs which they apprehend.
Mr. Nicholas said it would be difficult to ascertain precisely where truth is to be found; whether in the extremes of party or in a middle course. The gentleman from Maryland says party men are always in the wrong; therefore he supposed that gentleman to be of opinion that those who vibrate between two parties are always in the right. In considering this question, he should do it according to his best judgment. If his mind should be so operated upon by party spirit as not to see the truth, it would be his misfortune.
He believed, as he had already stated, that this bill, as it now stands, will authorize the President to negotiate with the subordinate agents of a Government against the will of that Government, and thereby promote a separation between the agent and his Government, by holding out a temptation to do certain acts not warranted by the Government. The House had been told, by two gentlemen from Massachusetts, that this cannot be the operation of the law, because it has no relation to a revolted colony; that when a revolt once takes place, the trade will open of itself, as the territory will no longer be under the authority of France. He wished to inquire into the truth of this doctrine, which one gentleman has asserted and another has endeavored to prove. Mr. N. asked if Toussaint should to-morrow declare himself independent, would the President be authorized to direct the collector of the customs to consider St. Domingo as no longer coming under the present law? In his own opinion, he could not, because it would be contrary to the practice of any other Government; and, if done, would give the lie to all the professions made by us on subjects of this kind. When the separation merely commences; when we know nothing of the means which the revolters possess, but because some person chooses to declare a place independent, shall our Government interfere and acknowledge such a place independent? He asked whether any gentlemen in this House, who are so frequently called disorganizers, had ever broached a doctrine like this? He knew very well, without the authority of Vattel, which the gentleman from Massachusetts had introduced, that any nation is at liberty to take part in a rebellion; but it is a good cause of war. When a revolution is effected, then the country revolting becomes independent, and any nation may treat with it according to its will. But, if you take part with the revolters, you place yourselves on the same ground with them in respect to the Government revolted against. And, said he, in case we give any assistance to any island belonging to France, in its revolt against that Government, we place ourselves in a state of war.
Mr. N. believed gentlemen are wrong in their construction of the present law, when they say if Toussaint were to declare himself independent to-morrow, that the Executive might immediately consider him so, and direct trade to be carried on with that island as heretofore. He believed the President would not do it, and that the present clause of this bill is founded upon the certainty that he would not. If this is the case, the same objection is in full force against the wording of this section. The gentleman from Massachusetts, first up, seems to acknowledge that this law is to have this operation. He, says, St. Domingo may become independent, and that therefore it is highly proper we should let them know what dependence they may have upon us; to let them know that they may expect all the advantages of independence. Is not this, said Mr. N., an acknowledgment of the effect which this law will have? That the moment they throw off the French yoke, they will receive all the assistance from this country which a free commerce can give them? Mr. N. thought the gentleman himself inflicted the deepest wound on this bill, for gentlemen cannot say that such an assurance is not a temptation to commit the act.
Mr. N. could readily believe that the trade of St. Domingo is very valuable to this country, and the assertion of the gentleman from Maryland, that it is a "mine of gold," had confirmed that opinion; and he was really afraid that that gentleman's representing a commercial part of the country, and being himself deeply engaged in commerce, the importance of this trade may have too much weight in deciding a question of this kind, and be a means of disregarding the evils which may arise from it; but Mr. N. was of opinion, that a solid peace would be far more beneficial to commerce generally, than any temporary advantage of this kind. Besides, the principle upon which such advantages would be built, is something similar to that which would actuate a man to fall upon the property of his neighbor, because he is richer than himself.
But does not the same gentleman tell the House that the powers in St. Domingo are pretty equally balanced between General Toussaint and Rigaud, and that, therefore, if Toussaint attempted to establish the independence of the island, there could be no certainty of his success? Why, then, said Mr. N., should we go into a measure which might produce war between the two countries, when the advantage to be derived from it is so very doubtful? And he thought the danger from the proceeding was heightened by the circumstance which gentlemen have mentioned of there being so very large a body of people in arms there; for, since the powers are so nicely balanced, is it not probable that the government party, in case of a struggle, would have the advantage? And would it not be the height of madness for us to run the risk of having the large force of that island turned against us, in consequence of our improper interference between the colony and its government?
Mr. N. said, he could not overlook some considerations connected with this subject, which he thought of great importance. It is well known, (and he begged gentlemen who have the same desire to preserve the country in peace that he had, to pause at the suggestion,) that there are many gentlemen in this House who have been long in favor of coming to an open declaration of war against France; and he had every reason to believe that the same disposition yet exists in these gentlemen; but the same opportunity of making this declaration does not now exist. The public mind is not now so well prepared for entering upon a war as it was some time ago, because they believe things wear a better appearance. If then, said Mr. N., the same disposition exists for war; if these gentlemen think they or their country will be benefited by war, they may be very willing that France should declare it; and if it be possible that a wish of this sort may exist, it affords a full solution to the meaning of this bill.
But we are told, said Mr. N., that we ought not to excite the animosity of the people of St. Domingo. Is our present situation calculated to produce this effect? Certainly not, since they are necessarily involved with the mother country; and to take the part proposed, he had already shown might be attended with the most direful consequences. He thought this country ought not to wish for the independence of St. Domingo in another point of view. However we may wish to see the naval power of France put down, so that they may not have it in their power, if they have the wish, to invade this country, it is highly important to us that the naval power of Europe should be divided. He did not think that it could be for the interest of this country that Great Britain should have a navy which should keep the world in awe, and subject it to her views; and if we assist in destroying the colonies of France, we shall be the means of throwing them and their naval power into the hands of Great Britain. He did not know that it mattered much to us whether St. Domingo was a colony of France or England, only as it would add to the naval strength of England. He hoped, therefore, the motion for striking out would prevail.
Mr. Pinckney observed, that so much had already been said on this subject, and the general principles of the bill had been so ably defended, that it would be unnecessary to make more than one or two remarks in reply to the gentleman from Virginia. That gentleman had gone altogether upon the idea of this bill being of so obnoxious a nature to the Government of France, that it must be considered by that government as a cause of war. He thought it had already been shown, that the gentleman was altogether mistaken; and, very unhappily for his position, our own experience was sufficient to determine whether it has ever been considered as a cause of war for neutral countries to trade with colonies revolting from a mother country. We know, said he, very well how neutral nations conducted towards us in our revolt from the Government of Great Britain. Mr. P. believed it was never understood that any nation with whom we traded was, in consequence, involved in war with Great Britain. The fact was otherwise. It was never so looked upon by that country, and gentlemen will admit that that Government was at least hightoned enough. All that Great Britain did was to seize the vessels whenever she could lay hold of them; and this is the risk which the gentleman from Maryland mentioned our traders would run in carrying commerce into any place in a state of revolution. It is well known that we endeavored, during the whole course of our war, to draw foreign commerce to this country, which was found necessary in order to enable us to carry on the war. Agents were employed for this purpose, and we saw no moral turpitude in this. And during the time that Holland was separated from the dominion of Spain, was war declared in consequence of any nation trading with Holland? The case was so different, he recollected that Holland declared, that she would seize all vessels going to Spain, though that had heretofore been considered as the mother country. This was reversing the case.
With respect to the three points stated generally by the Secretary of State, they are not said to go to the point for which the gentleman from Virginia has taken them. With regard to the douceur of £50,000, Mr. P. would say, that if we believe this attempt to have been made to extort this sum of money from our Envoys, for corrupt purposes, (and notwithstanding all that has been said on the subject, he did believe that X and Y were the agents of the French Government in that transaction, and which has, indeed, been acknowledged by Y, Mr. Bellamy, of Hamburg, who declares he has never written or said any thing to our Envoys, but by the direction of the Secretary of Foreign Affairs,) no reliance ought to be placed upon any of their declarations; for after such an act, it may be supposed they will say one thing at one time and another at another; and no reliance could be had upon any thing which comes from so corrupt a source.
Mr. P. said he would not trouble the committee longer, except in one point, and that was as to the consequences which might flow from a declaration of independence on the part of St. Domingo. He should endeavor to answer the gentleman from Pennsylvania as to the consequences which it might produce to the Southern States. It was a subject to which he had paid all the attention in his power. He did, on all questions, endeavor as much as possible to divest himself of any thing like party spirit; but in this case, where he had himself so much at stake, in which his native country and every thing dear to him was concerned, his sincerity could not be doubted. Mr. P. did not himself believe that this bill would have the least tendency to procure the independence of St. Domingo; but as some gentlemen think it is probable that this may be the result, and as no one could say with certainty what the effect of any measure would be, he had considered the subject, and was clearly of opinion, that should the independence of that island take place, the event would be more advantageous to the Southern States, than if it remained under the dominion of France, considering the disposition which France has evinced towards us, (and of which he saw no prospects of a change,) and the present conduct of the inhabitants of St. Domingo. Nothing which we can do, said Mr. P., can bring back the internal state of that island to the state it was formerly in. Considering the inhabitants, then, in the light of freemen, whether will it be better for us, in the Southern States, to have to deal with them, as such, or under the direction of the French Government, unreasonable and arbitrary as we have found it? He had no hesitation in saying, that, it would be more for the safety of the Southern States, to have that island independent, than under the Government of France, either in time of peace or war. If our dispute with France should not be accommodated, and they keep possession of St. Domingo, they could invade this country only from that quarter. There is there a large body of troops, and their unofficial agents told our Envoys, that in case we did not submit to their conditions, we might expect an attack from that quarter. It would certainly lessen the danger from that island, were it to be separated from France; but remaining in the hands of France, and supported by the powerful navy of France, notwithstanding all the vigor we have shown on the ocean, we might be very much annoyed from thence.
If these people in St. Domingo find that we withhold from them supplies which are necessary for their subsistence, said Mr. P., though they are friendly disposed towards us, they will look elsewhere for support; they must either turn their attention to cultivating their land, look to Great Britain, or become freebooters. Which situation is it most for the interest of the United States that they should be in? Surely the peaceful cultivation of the ground; and to induce them to take this course, it will be our interest to supply them with what they have occasion for, lest they should get the habit of freebooters, and make our commerce the object of their plunder. He hoped, therefore, the motion for striking out would not prevail.
Mr. Macon had no doubt the gentleman from South Carolina had paid particular attention to this subject. It was to be expected that every gentleman from the Southern States would pay attention to it. In one respect, he was precisely in the same situation with the gentleman from South Carolina. He lived in a country that would be affected by any event, such as had been mentioned, and all his connections were there. It was the same with all other gentlemen from the Southern States. He differed in opinion, however, when the gentlemen said that we should have less to apprehend from St. Domingo, in case it should become independent, than whilst it remained a part of the French Republic. He believed the state of society to be such in that country, as not to admit of self-government. In case they separate from France, he should apprehend that the consequence will be, that instead of being ruled by one of the European powers, they would become the tools of them all, in turn, and we should probably have the same game played off upon us from thence, that we have heretofore had played upon us by means of the Indians.
Mr. M. said, that although the part of the bill moved to be stricken out, does not go directly to say that it has reference to St. Domingo, it is a little extraordinary that no other case will fit it. There could be no doubt, if the island became independent, we should have a right to trade to it; but he believed it would puzzle gentlemen to find an instance of a Legislature passing a law in order to fit a case which might happen. As he thought it improper, he hoped it would be stricken out.
Mr. Goodrich said this amendment went to change the principle of the bill. The bill goes upon the idea that when any island in the West Indies shall cease to make depredations upon our commerce, our trade shall be opened with them, without regarding by what authority or force the change was effected. The matter is not placed upon the ground of any treaty whatever; for, said Mr. G., we can neither increase nor diminish the power of the President in this respect. A great deal of mist has been thrown on this subject. The effect of this amendment will be, that the person restraining from depredations upon our commerce must act under the authority of the French Republic; on the contrary, the friends of this bill wish not to examine by what authority the thing is done, provided that it be done. We have a right to say that our vessels shall go to any port we please; but, according to the doctrine of the amendment supposing the island of St. Domingo was conquered, we could not send our commerce there, nor could we send it to a place in rebellion; so that our commerce was to be affected by every change of circumstances which might take place. He hoped the committee would recognize no principle which shall say we have not a right to send our commerce wherever we please, whether the places to which our vessels go are in war, peace, or rebellion.
Mr. Gallatin was astonished to hear the gentleman from Connecticut say that this is merely a commercial question. Let us, said he, examine the effect of this amendment. We are told that the provisions of this bill do not extend to any colony which may be conquered; for instance, to St. Martin's, St. Lucia, or any other colonies which have been conquered. Let us see, then, how it will apply if this amendment is rejected, and whether the question is commercial or political. Let us inquire, said he, what is the case provided for, if the amendment is rejected, and which is unprovided for if it is adopted, and it will then appear what ground is covered by the opposers of this amendment. If rejected, it will result, that all persons who may claim or exercise any command in any island, &c., although they have not that command under the Government of France, and who shall refrain from privateering, shall be entitled to a free trade with this country. The only case is a case of insurrection and rebellion. Suppose, said Mr. G., I should agree with the gentleman from Connecticut, that if once a rebellion takes place, or any colony shall declare itself independent, (but, by the by, the doctrine is not countenanced by the law of nations,) that we may trade there as we please. Does it result that we have a right to pass a law beforehand to contemplate such an event? If we do, it will be speaking publicly, thus: "If any persons shall, in any island, port, or place, belonging to the French Republic, raise an insurrection, and declare themselves independent, and shall be found to refrain from committing depredations upon our commerce, we will open a free trade with them." And yet the gentleman from Connecticut calls this a mere commercial question.
The committee have been told of a number of cases which he had been astonished to hear—cases which happened in our war. Gentlemen who have mentioned these have not attended to any of the facts of the war. Mr. G. referred to the case of the treaty made in Holland, which has already been explained in a former debate. Mr. G. said, gentlemen might put what construction they pleased upon this section; but certainly publicly to tell the French colonies that if they will rebel against their Government, and restrain from depredating upon us, we will treat with them, is to invite them to do it. A declaration of war has always been the consequence of such a conduct in other countries; and he supposed gentlemen are not ready for a declaration of war, though they tell us there is no change in our affairs for the better; that negotiation is at an end; that no idea can be entertained of the sincerity of any professions of the French; and not being ready to bring in a declaration of war, they are not surely ready to make it, or provoke it; and if not, why assume a principle that may have this effect? He hoped the amendment would be agreed to.
The committee now rose, and had leave to sit again.