Monday, January 4, 1802.
William Barry Grove, from North Carolina, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House.
Ordered, That Mr. Milledge be appointed to the Committee of Ways and Means, in the room of Mr. Dickson, who is sick and unable to attend.
Judiciary System.
Mr. Randolph moved that the House should go into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, with the view of submitting three resolutions to the committee, viz:
"Resolved, That it is expedient to inquire whether any, and what, alterations should be made in the Judicial Establishment of the United States.
"Resolved, That provision ought to be made for the impartial selection of juries.
"Resolved, That it is expedient to inquire whether any, and what, reductions can be made in the civil expenses of the Government of the United States."
The House accordingly went into committee.
Mr. Bayard presumed an agreement to these resolutions would, in their present shape, meet with no opposition. It was impossible to determine what shape they would ultimately assume. The Judiciary system was doubtless susceptible of amendment, and if any proper amendments should be proposed, he would concur in their adoption. With respect to the second resolution, though he did not know that there was any necessity for altering the mode at present practised of selecting juries, not having heard of any complaints under it, yet, as the resolution only led to an inquiry into the subject, he would not object.
With regard to the last resolution, it was one in which we must all concur. The object, if attainable, would be extremely grateful to all of us.
The three resolutions were agreed to without a division. The committee then rose, and reported them to the House.
On the report being taken up, Mr. Randolph moved that the consideration of the two first resolutions be postponed till the third Monday of January.
Mr. Bayard hoped the motion for postponement would not prevail. The propositions were abstract ones, leading to inquiry, and the sooner they were acted upon, the better. The mode pursued by the gentleman from Virginia, if his simple object was to give notice, was the least happy that he could have devised, for it gave to gentlemen no opportunity to prepare themselves, as they were totally unacquainted, in the present stage of the business, as to what would be the alterations proposed. If a committee were now appointed, they would have time to deliberate on a subject of the utmost importance—one so complicated as to require great attention. When their report was made, he would be one of those who would ask from the candor of the House time to consider it.
Mr. Randolph said, he was at all times willing to accommodate gentlemen of every political description on proper occasions. Apprehending that his resolutions, if taken up in the House, would give rise to discussion, he had moved for their postponement, from a wish not to interfere with the desire of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, and other gentlemen, to act on the apportionment bill. As his motion for postponement appeared likely to be itself productive of discussion, by which the time of the House would be exhausted, and the means he used defeat the end he had in view, he would withdraw his motion.
The House then agreed to the resolutions without a division.
Mr. Randolph moved the reference of the two first resolutions to the same committee.
He said, in reply to the gentleman from Delaware, that he made the motion respecting juries not because any complaint did at present exist of the exercise of the powers under which jurors were selected, but because they had not long since existed, and because in similar circumstances they might again exist. He was glad the gentleman from Delaware had no reason to complain of their present abuse. But this was no security against the future.
Mr. Bayard said, that he had spoken as he had done, not for the purpose of expressing any opinion that any abuse respecting juries had been recently removed under the present state of things; but to state that he had never heard of any complaints on this subject in the part of the Union from which he came; and he had particularly alluded to the mode of designating jurors in his State, which was by ballot. But if there were complaints in other parts of the Union, he would co-operate in any means that could be devised for removing them.
Mr. Smilie said, that since the gentleman from Delaware had introduced the subject, and had declared that no complaints existed, he would say that complaints had existed, that just grounds for them existed, and that they had been expressed in the loudest tone. And he would appeal to the gentleman from Delaware whether any man could be safe who was at the mercy of a marshal, who was the mere creature of the President.
Mr. Bayard.—While man continues as he is, there will be complaints on this subject. We are divided into parties. The people, as well as the President, must belong to one side or the other; and whether we have sheriffs chosen by the people, or marshals appointed by the President, the evil will still exist. He had no objection, if it were the wish of gentlemen, that the marshals should be appointed by the people; though we know that the people are as apt, nay more apt, to be infected with violent political feelings, than an Executive officer.
Mr. Randolph said, that without desiring to exhaust the time of the House on a point where there was no difference of opinion, he could not permit the observation of the gentleman from Delaware to pass unnoticed; that an officer, holding a lucrative office, appointed by the President, and dependent upon his will, is as independent as a sheriff, elected in some States annually by the people, and in other States appointed in a manner calculated to ensure his independence. He would instance the State of Virginia, in which the sheriffs were nominated by the justices of the county courts, who, it was understood, were to hold the office of sheriff in rotation. Will the gentleman say that these men, who are independent of the pleasure of any man, are liable to be made the same tools, with officers who hold their appointments at the absolute will of one man?
Mr. R. would further say, that the remark of the gentleman from Delaware, that the existence of no complaints had ever come to his ears, had excited his extreme astonishment. In North Carolina, he believed, no legal jury had been selected since the establishment of the Federal Government. In that State, in the State courts, all juries are first selected in the inferior courts, and then sent to the superior courts. He would ask, how, under these circumstances, a jury could be struck in a federal court in that State agreeably to law? In Virginia and Pennsylvania, the independence of sheriffs is secured; therefore, no restrictions are imposed upon them in selecting juries; whereas, in the federal courts the marshal is the abject creature of the Executive—and yet we are told the security is the same! Mr. R. did not wish to consume the time of the House; but when views are taken by gentlemen calculated, either as to fact or sentiment, to lead the public mind astray, if other gentlemen did not, he would invariably notice them.
Mr. Bayard desired to explain. He had not meant to contend that sheriffs chosen for three years by the people were as dependent as similar officers appointed by the President. He had alluded to the effects which flowed from a marked division of parties. We were in all events subject to that evil. It was a truth that men deeply infected with party were more apt to be chosen by the people than by an Executive magistrate; because the people felt more strongly a degree of political fanaticism.
After some further debate, it was determined to refer the two first resolutions to a committee of seven, and the last to a committee of five members.
Ordered, That Mr. Nicholson, Mr. John Taliaferro, Jr., Mr. Goddard, Mr. Rutledge, Mr. Israel Smith, Mr. Henderson, and Mr. Bailey, be appointed a committee, pursuant to the first and second resolutions.
Ordered, That Mr. Bacon, Mr. Grove, Mr. Elmendorph, Mr. Hemphill, and Mr. Abram Trigg, be appointed a committee, pursuant to the third resolution.