Wednesday, December 30.
Internal Taxes.
Mr. Davis moved the appointment of a committee to inquire into the expediency of repealing the acts imposing duties on stills and distilled spirits, on refined sugars, on sales at auction, and on pleasure carriages.
Mr. Davis said his object, in making this motion, was, that the House should accomplish that directly, which had been this session attempted in so circuitous a way as to embarrass and delay its proceedings. He saw no reason for going into a Committee of the Whole, in order to arrive at decisions that might better be made directly by the House itself.
On this motion a debate of considerable length ensued, in which, on the one side, the reference to a select committee, and on the other a reference to a Committee of the whole House was advocated. No decision was had, and of course the motion of Mr. D. was ordered to lie on the table.
Army Reduction.
Mr. Bayard, during the course of the debate—in allusion to the adoption yesterday of the resolution of Mr. Randolph for reducing the Military Establishment, which he thought premature, not considering the House as sufficiently acquainted with the details of the subject, to act upon it—said, that if gentlemen were for reducing the Army in whatever degree, or for abandoning it altogether, he should go with them. He would, on such occasion, be governed by the same principles which had hitherto guided him. He had heretofore been disposed to repose a liberal confidence in the Executive of the United States; and when an increase of our military force had been recommended by the President, he had invariably been for it; much more would he be disposed, when a reduction was recommended from the same quarter, to sanction it by his vote. With the Executive rested the responsibility of the exterior defence of the nation; and if the Executive was of opinion that the nation was secure with a force of three, two, or one thousand, or without even a single man, he would concur with him in giving effect to such a conviction.
Mr. Randolph was called up by these remarks. He had little thought that his motion, agreed to yesterday sub silentio, and without the least hesitation, would have been made the topic of such animated animadversion as he had heard to-day. He would tell the gentleman from Delaware, that his motion had neither been immature in substance, nor premature as to time. It would be recollected, that previous to its adoption, the Secretary of War had been called upon to furnish information to the House. He had furnished information, to his mind completely satisfactory. He had stated the establishment to be five thousand men; and his opinion that all the garrisons required only three thousand men. Could it, then, with any reason be called premature to act upon such information? If the gentleman from Delaware, or other gentlemen thought so, why not combat a decision at the time? Did they imagine that, without the expression of a murmur by them, the mover would himself rise and oppose his own motion?
As to the delay which had been noticed, as having taken place in the transaction of business, it was not to be ascribed to any particular mode of procedure; but to the unusual languor of the season; to the absence of several members of great weight; to the augmentation of new members not yet fully acquainted with the forms of business, and to the unusual mass of information presented to the House, which enlarged the field of action, and to the delays of printing arising from the unusual quantity of matter submitted.
Internal Taxes.
Mr. Bayard moved that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, for the purpose of enabling him to offer a resolution to the following effect:
"Resolved, That the Committee of Ways and Means be instructed to inquire into the expediency of repealing the laws laying duties on stills and distilled spirits, on refined sugar, on sales at auction, on pleasurable carriages, on stamps, and on postage of letters."
Mr. Bayard made this motion for the purpose of placing the important subject contemplated by it in a train for decision. He thought it full time to commence our proceedings upon it; and in his opinion, it was fit that the consideration of the subject, generally, should go before the Committee of Ways and Means. The subject was so important as to strike at the vital principles of our revenue. The repeal of the internal taxes involved a reduction of six hundred thousand dollars in our receipts. The propriety of such a reduction did not constitute a distinct subject for consideration, but depended upon the deductions made on a comprehensive view of our finances, which could only be taken by the Committee of Ways and Means, to whom was committed generally whatever regarded revenue.
If the minds of gentlemen, said Mr. B., were made up to abolish all the internal taxes, it must be to them perfectly immaterial to what committee a reference was made. He knew the flattering prospects held out by the President, and he hoped they would all be verified. But his own mind was not made up, nor did he know that the minds of other gentlemen were made up on the propriety of dispensing with these taxes. He was led to this inference by observing no official notice to such effect in the communications made by the Secretary of the Treasury. On the contrary, the Secretary had so made his calculations, predicated as they were upon the continuance of these taxes, that his calculations would be greatly deranged by dispensing with them. Mr. B. knew not that we were prepared to leap this precipice. If the public burdens could be reduced, he would be delighted with the act of reduction. Yet still, if the sum of six hundred thousand dollars, derived from these taxes, could be dispensed with, doubts might be entertained whether the internal taxes were those which should be first either reduced or abolished. He held it to be a correct principle, that taxation should be equal, and that no one class of citizens should be burdened to the exemption of all other classes. From a slight consideration of the subject, he had found no other way of enabling our brethren to the westward to participate in the public burdens than by affording them an opportunity of paying their portion of internal revenue. It might appear, on investigation, that more substantial relief would be afforded to the various descriptions of our citizens, by continuing the internal taxes, and reducing those on imports; and if it should be thought proper to diminish the burden imposed on our western citizens, he would ask whether that effect would not be more substantially accomplished by reducing the tax upon salt? It would be recollected that great opposition had been made to the imposition of this tax, which had been denominated oppressive, as it fell upon an article of necessity.
Attention ought, also, to be paid to the liability of several articles to be smuggled, the only mode of preventing which was well known to be a reduction of the duties.
Mr. B. stated these circumstances, not as evidences of having matured his own ideas; but to show the necessity of referring the subject to a committee, whose special duty it was to take a general view of the resources and expenses of the nation, and who, therefore, in the present stage of the session, were alone in a situation to make the requisite inquiry.
Mr. Eustis said that the reasons offered by the gentleman from Delaware were with him conclusive that this was not the proper time for considering the subject. Until we know the reductions in the expenditures of the Government that are to be made, it is impossible that we can say how far it will be expedient to reduce or abolish our taxes. We had not determined to what extent the Army or the Navy should be reduced, nor had we come to any ultimate decision on any reduction whatever. For these reasons he must oppose a decision at this time upon the subject, whether that decision was in this or any other shape.
Mr. Bacon concurred with Mr. Eustis in considering any decision as at present premature.
Mr. Rutledge viewed the subject as of great importance. He could not figure to his imagination one likely to occur this session of equal importance. The President contemplated a repeal of all the internal revenues, and the imposition of all taxes upon imported articles. The Secretary of the Treasury appears, by implication, to be of a different opinion, and contemplates a continuance of these duties. What is the object of the gentleman from Delaware? Why, delay; time for consideration, by reference of the subject to a committee most competent to inquire. As to the public burdens, every member on the floor had a common feeling. We do not wish to lay unnecessary taxes. But when taxes are laid, when they are uncomplained of, it was indeed deeply interesting without consideration to decide on their abolition. Mr. R. said, for himself, he should be embarrassed by being forced into an immediate decision. We want information before we are called upon to decide. The motion seeks that information. It sends the business to the Committee of Ways and Means, to whom it belongs of right. It is their duty to consider it, for whatever relates to revenue must go to them. Gentlemen cannot say that they are surprised. By the resolution, they are not called upon to decide upon the subject; they are only called upon to place it in a train for decision.
Mr. Macon hoped the business would be taken up, and the sooner it was done, the better. It was certainly of great importance, and the earlier the House proceeded to consider it, the sooner would they be prepared for deciding upon it. If the vote of reference was final, the arguments of the gentleman from Massachusetts would apply. But this was not the case.
It had been said that the President had declared his opinion that we can dispense with these taxes. The statement was not correct. His opinion was contingent. He had said, we may dispense with these taxes in case we proportionably reduce the expenses.
As to the remarks made respecting the different opinions of the President and Secretary of the Treasury, they likewise were erroneous. Distinct views were taken by each. The President, contemplating a reduction in the expenses, intimates the expediency of repealing the internal taxes; whereas the Secretary of the Treasury, taking things as they are, states the effects of their continuance. From these circumstances, no diversity of opinion could be inferred.
Mr. M. concluded by expressing a hope that the expenses of the Government would be reduced, that the internal taxes would be taken off, and that immediate measures would be pursued for preparing the House for a final decision.
Mr. Eustis was alike hostile to the present motion and to that which had been made by the gentleman from Kentucky, who had yesterday introduced the subject. He had heard the motion with a sensation of uncommon surprise; for he was of opinion that the public attention should not be attracted, or the public sensation excited, till we should be able to determine the course proper to be pursued. He felt himself unprepared to decide, and believed other gentlemen were equally unprepared. He hoped that he cherished a suitable respect for the President of the United States, though he did not know that he would go so far as the gentleman from Delaware, and disband a whole army at his word.
The wisest course was to wait until information was obtained. This would in fact be gaining time. If the Committee of Ways and Means were to consider the subject, it must be under the present state of things. They could not take for granted what might or might not be done by Congress; and before Congress could decide, they must have information which they do not yet possess. He who, under present circumstance, attempted to say to what length our retrenchments would go, and what taxes we could spare, might indeed be called a prophet.
We ought not, said Mr. E., to stir the public sensibility improperly or prematurely. By exciting that sensibility before we had determined how to act in future, impressions may be raised which we shall not be able to satisfy.
Mr. Smilie concurred in opinion with Mr. E., and moved, as the best mode of disposing of the subject, that the committee rise.
Mr. Griswold declared himself against delay. He knew not why the House were not prepared to decide immediately. The President had introduced the subject, and if any sensibility had been excited, it must be ascribed to him, and not to us. Nor did he think that any ill effects would flow from attracting the public attention. The President did not know, when he addressed us, that we would be for a reduction of the expenses; yet, thinking as he did, it was highly proper in him to give his opinion to the House. So proposed to us, it would exhibit a want of respect to that Magistrate not to take it up immediately. Not to act upon it promptly would be subversive of the national tranquillity after the attention of the public had been directed to it.
Mr. Smilie had thought the gentleman from Connecticut was too well acquainted with the proceedings of that House to say that the Committee of Ways and Means were prepared to act upon this subject. Did they know how far we would reduce the Army, the Navy, or the Judiciary?
Mr. Varnum hoped the committee would rise. Any disposition of the subject was at present premature. As to the calculations of the Secretary alluded to, they were made from the existing revenue, and all his deductions were made therefrom. The President had taken another view of the subject. Contemplating the probability of a reduction in our expenses, he had stated that, in such event, we could dispense with the internal taxes. But whether the contemplated reduction could be made, the House were not prepared to say. Of one thing he was sure, that not a single necessary tax would be abandoned.
Mr. Dana said, that more than three weeks have elapsed since the President's communication has been laid before us, and, during that time, a sense of decorum has not induced us to take up one of the most important parts of it. He certainly agreed with gentlemen that we ought to take up the subject and decide for ourselves. If we concur with the President, we shall repeal the laws; if we do not concur, we may, it is true, risk our popularity by opposing so favorite a measure with the people. But placed as we shall be between popularity on the one hand, and duty on the other, as honest men we should do our duty. But certainly it is our duty now to examine the subject. Grant that the reduction in our expenses may extend to a million, though scarcely half that sum could be hoped for; still the question remains what taxes shall be diminished. He could not, for his part, feel all that horror of public sensibility that had been portrayed by the gentleman from Massachusetts. What have we to fear, suppose we interfere with that sensibility? If we do so in the discharge of our duty, he was perfectly willing it should be excited; nay, it would be useful to the people themselves.
Mr. Eustis was perfectly ready to meet the public sensibility, whether for or against us. We had already tried it both ways. He was much pleased with the respect professed by gentlemen for the public sensibility, and also for the communications of the President. But there were parts of those communications, which, notwithstanding the impatience of gentlemen, they would not be displeased at laying unacted upon, not merely three weeks, but three months.
Mr. Bayard did not expect an opposition to his motion from the quarter from which it came; for he had a right to expect as much deference to the President from the opposite, as from his own side. For his part he felt no terrors at meeting the whole, or any part of the President's communications. Whatever he recommended that was right, he would vote for, and whatever was wrong, he would oppose. Though his former habits had led him to cherish a respect for the President, of which he did not repent, yet he felt no servility that would lead him to repress an expression of his sentiments.
A gentleman from Pennsylvania had talked about reducing the Army, the Navy, and the Judiciary. But there were other expenses which the gentleman might have dwelt on. Why silent on the Legislature? Let us reduce the length of our sessions. It did not appear consistent in that gentleman to strike at the Judiciary, and other departments, and leave untouched whatever affected himself.
Mr. Randolph did not desire to occupy much of the time of the committee, as he thought it immaterial whether the committee rise or not. But he wished, for the information, and perhaps for the satisfaction, of the gentleman from Massachusetts, to state that, among other members, he was one who had not decided whether Government could dispense with the internal taxes. He hoped, and was inclined to believe, that they might be dispensed with. The Secretary of the Treasury had expressly stated that part of his report was speculative, viz: that part which inferred the effects of peace. The correctness of the opinion of the Secretary on this point must decide the House as to the propriety of giving up these taxes. He was one who, though he did not think a state of peace would materially affect the revenue, had not decided whether a reduction of the public impositions in this or that species of revenue should be made. He noticed these things, to prevent an impression being made on the public mind that the House were for precipitating a decision. As to the public sensation, he felt no alarm. He knew that our measures must depend upon the reductions we shall make.
Mr. R., for these reasons, was against any decision now; and had the gentleman from Kentucky pressed his motion yesterday, he was prepared to move a postponement of it. In the mean time, there were other important topics involved in the Message that might be referred and acted upon.
Mr. Dana presumed that the honorable gentleman from Massachusetts had done him the honor of alluding to him in his remarks. He was not very solicitous that the subject should be inquired into, but since it was brought up, he must say that nothing short of the talents of the honorable gentleman could furnish a semblance of reason for not going immediately into the inquiry. That gentleman errs egregiously, if he imagines that I can dread an investigation of any point involved in the President's Message. He would add, that whatever his particular opinion might be of the person to whom had been confided the Government of the nation, it became him only to see in him the First Magistrate of the country, and to treat him with correspondent respect, and to see in what he did, not the man, but the measure.
The question was then taken on the committee rising, and lost—yeas 29, nays 48.
The reference to the Committee of Ways and Means was then carried, both in committee and in the House, without a division.
The House adjourned till Monday.