Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 2 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Monday, June 5.

Defensive Measures.

The House then resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, and the Speech of the President, at the opening of the session, having been read,

Mr. W. Smith said, he wished to lay upon the table a number of resolutions, which it appeared, if it should not be found advisable to carry the whole of them into effect, were at least worthy of discussion. He did not, however, at present, pledge himself to support the whole: they were as follow:

"1. Resolved, That further provision ought to be made by law, for fortifying the forts and harbors of the United States.

"2. Resolved, That further provision be made by law, for completing and manning the frigates United States, Constitution, and Constellation.

"3. Resolved, That provision be made by law, for procuring by purchase a further naval force, to consist of —— frigates of —— guns, and —— sloops of war of —— guns.

"4. Resolved, That provision be made by law, for empowering the President to employ the naval force of the United States, as convoys to protect the trade thereof.

"5. Resolved, That provision be made by law, for regulating the arming of the merchant vessels of the United States.

"6. Resolved, That the existing Military Establishment ought to be augmented by an addition of one regiment or corps of artillerists and engineers, and —— companies of dragoons.

"7. Resolved, That provision be made by law, for empowering the President to raise a provisional army, to consist of —— regiments of infantry, one regiment of artillery, and one regiment of dragoons, by commissioning the officers, and by volunteers or enlistments, whenever the circumstances of the country shall, in his opinion, render the said army necessary for the protection and defence of the United States: Provided, That neither the officers nor soldiers shall receive any pay or emoluments until called into actual service.

"8. Resolved, That provision be made by law, to authorize the President to borrow, on the credit of the United States, a sum not exceeding —— dollars, to defray the expense which may arise in providing for the defence and security of the United States.

"9. Resolved, That provision be made by law, to raise a revenue adequate to the reimbursement, within —— years, of such sum as may be borrowed, as aforesaid.

"10. Resolved, That provision be made by law, to prohibit, for a limited time, the exportation of arms, ammunition, and military and naval stores."

The resolutions having been read from the chair,

Mr. W. Smith moved the first of them.

Mr. Giles wished the gentleman would reverse his propositions, and let the one for raising money come first. He did not know whether they were prepared to meet this expense. He did not mean to oppose the present motion; he supposed it would pass. But he thought they were about to be too precipitous in their measures. At a time when all Europe seemed to be tired of war, and about to make peace, we seemed to be disposed to rush into it. He did not believe that much good would be done by this system of fortification. He did not think the United States were more secure now, than before they had a single work of the kind. We have, said he, an extensive sea-coast, and it was not to be expected that an enemy would choose to come to precisely the place where a fortification stands. It was his opinion that the interests of the country would be served, by letting this matter lie over till next session.

Mr. Williams observed, that the sense of the committee should be first taken upon the propriety of going into the measure; if there was a majority in favor of it, (and he could not doubt it,) the matter would be referred to a select committee, who would make their report upon it.

Mr. S. Smith was in favor of going into this measure; for if the war continued in Europe, he thought it probable we might be drawn into it.

Mr. Swanwick should not be opposed to the present motion, because he agreed with the gentleman from Maryland, that whilst the war continued in Europe there was a probability of this country being drawn into the vortex. But he thought there was some weight, also, in the observation of the gentleman from Virginia, with respect to the ways and means; because, if, after they should agree to carry into effect certain measures, they should disagree about the means, their time would have been spent to no purpose.

The question was put and carried, there being 62 votes in favor of it.

Completing and Manning the Frigates.

Mr. Gallatin said, if the question was to determine the principle of manning the frigates, the resolution stood right as it was. But if it were not intended, by adopting this resolution, to commit any man, but only to say that they would take the business into consideration, and if found useful and necessary, and funds were attainable, they would carry it into effect, then the amendment of the gentleman from New York (Mr. Livingston) would be proper. As to the committee's rising, he could see no ground for it, as these propositions were not new—they had had them before them for three weeks in the Speech of the President. Of course, so far as related to the frigates, gentlemen must have formed an opinion; yet he agreed that it was desirable to see some documents on the subject, before a decided affirmative or negative was given. He was, therefore, in favor of the amendment for a committee to be appointed. He wished all those subjects which were of a doubtful nature to be then determined. On the other hand, those upon which members were ready to decide at once, either by an acceptance or rejection, might be voted upon in the form in which they were introduced.

Mr. Parker read the motion which was entered into last year, and thought it would be a good model for the present.

Mr. W. Smith was of a different opinion. He thought the committee should first decide the abstract principle. He thought it would be wrong to refer to a select committee a business in which every member was so intimately interested, and he doubted not gentlemen were ready to decide upon this abstract question. With regard to expense, he was of opinion that if the situation of the country required it, that should be no object. If gentlemen thought differently, they would of course negative the proposition. Any information on the subject could be got before the business was finished. He thought they should first say what were the necessary objects of expense, and then provide the money, which might be done by borrowing or by taxes. If there was a necessity for the expense, there was no doubt the money would be raised. If gentlemen were not prepared to discuss the subject, he had no objection to the committee's rising, and, in the House, the Secretary of War might be called upon for information.

Mr. Nicholas thought the question was not fairly presented. It was whether they should man the frigates. But when they were called upon to determine this, they should know when they would be ready to receive the men. The probability was that the frigates would not be ready to receive the men before the next session of Congress.

Mr. Dayton (the Speaker) was in favor of the original proposition. He wished to provide for manning all the frigates which could be got ready before the next session of Congress. He believed if they adopted this plan, unnecessary delay would be prevented.

Mr. Parker was ready to vote for the proposition of the gentleman from South Carolina. He believed the frigate in Philadelphia might be equipped, rigged, and manned, in three months. The only reason why he varied his motion was, that he might include the next proposition; but he believed it would be better for them to stand separate, as, before he voted for the additional vessels, he should wish to know how the means were to be got, and for what purpose they were to be used. The vessel at Boston, he said, would not be ready so soon, but it would be in readiness before the next meeting of Congress; that at Baltimore would be in readiness to receive her men in four months.

Mr. S. Smith said, the frigate building at Baltimore would be launched on the 4th of July, and the equipments were in greater forwardness than those for the frigate at Philadelphia.

Mr. Baldwin was against referring this proposition to a select committee. It would be desirable, indeed, to know what the cost of doing the business would be, but every one knew how little to be relied upon were estimates of this kind. He was ready to vote for manning the frigates; indeed there was no question upon which he was so ready to say aye, as upon this.

The question was about to be put on Mr. Livingston's motion, when

Mr. Varnum said he thought the wording of the resolution improper, as the word "completing" would clash with the act of last session.

The question was put and negatived, 50 to 34.

Mr. Macon wished the frigates to be completed, but not manned, he therefore moved to strike out the words "and manning."

The question was put and negatived; there being only twenty-four votes in favor of it.

Mr. Giles moved to strike out the word "completing;" but, after some conversation, the motion was withdrawn, and the original resolution was carried.

The third proposition next came under consideration.

Mr. Nicholas hoped the gentleman who introduced this motion, would tell them for what purpose these additional vessels were wanted. He supposed this resolution to be connected with the next, and if so, he thought they should be considered together. What, he asked, were to be the instructions given to the commanders of these vessels? He thought it a very embarrassing business, and one that would certainly lead to war; nay, indeed, the thing seemed to be a war operation in itself.

Mr. W. Smith wished the gentleman had made his inquiries before. They would have come more properly when the frigates were under consideration, as the same objection would be against both; and the next resolution had no more connection with this than with that already agreed to. The gentleman seemed to have let go the opportunity of calling upon him; as, however, he did not wish to evade his call, (though he was not willing to say he would himself vote for the measure,) he would say that it appeared to him, from the present state of the commerce of this country, to be necessary to provide convoys for our vessels. These vessels might not, indeed, be employed as a regular convoy, but partly confined to the coasts and harbors.

Mr. Nicholas expected the gentleman from South Carolina would have acknowledged that the two resolutions were connected. Indeed he must have intended those vessels to be employed in this way, or such a resolution would not have been introduced. With respect to Sweden's treaty for a reciprocal convoy, there was some ground for it, as there was a difference between the Northern Powers of Europe, as to the principle of free ships making free goods; but where there was no difference as to the principle, no such thing could take place.

Mr. Gallatin said the present resolution was certainly in some degree connected with the next. It was understood that the purchasing of frigates and sloops of war, was for the purpose of convoying our trade. Under the present circumstances of this country, he should be opposed to this proposition; not that he denied the right of neutral powers to afford convoys to their merchant vessels; but, because under present circumstances it was impolitic to adopt the measure, not only for the reasons urged by the gentleman from Virginia, but on account of our situation with respect to France at the present moment. By our treaty with France, enemy's property was to be respected on board of American vessels, and certain articles used in the building of ships were not considered as contraband; the President would, of course, be obliged to give orders to have our vessels protected in this situation, and who could not see that this would be the source of war; and if the convoy were not to be employed to enforce these two privileges, he did not see what use it could be of. He knew that depredations without number had been committed in the West Indies; but he was led to believe that this was done by pirates more than by any other vessels. But suppose it were practicable to distinguish between those vessels which were regularly, and those which were piratically taken; yet, he must confess he would not be for running the risk of a rupture, by sending out armed vessels to contest the point, especially when we have reason to believe that these attacks are unauthorized by the French Government.

Mr. G. thought it would only be necessary to extend our navy in case of war, and were this unhappily to be our situation, vessels might easily be purchased without delay; but whilst we were at peace, he did not think the advantages which could be derived from a convoy would be a sufficient inducement to go into the measure. Besides he was induced by another motive to give this proposition his negative. He knew the depredations upon our commerce had been great; but he did not look upon this loss as falling only upon merchants. There was not an individual who did not bear a part of it.[17] For instance, if a merchant paid ten or fifteen per cent. additional upon his cargo, he will put a proportionably high price upon his commodities, which must eventually be paid by the consumer. Therefore, so far as an argument might be drawn from this circumstance, it became a question of expediency, and he thought it would be granted, that the loss to individuals would be less in this way than if they had to support a navy to protect our trade.

Mr. W. Smith acknowledged that there was considerable weight in the arguments of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, though he did not find sufficient weight in them to change his opinion of the propriety of the measure. The gentleman from Virginia had endeavored to show that, as there was no difference of opinion as to principle between France and this country, the regulations entered into with Sweden did not apply; whilst the gentleman from Pennsylvania had produced arguments to show that we were in that situation. With respect to the treaty articles in dispute, it would be an easy matter for the President to give the commanders of our vessels proper instructions on that head. And would any gentleman say it was not right to defend our vessels against pirates? Would not the French say, if they were applied to for redress, "You knew these were pirates; why did you not defend yourselves against them?" The expense, which seems so much to alarm gentlemen, should be put out of the question. The only question, said he, is, if your property is unjustly attacked, will you defend it?

But it was said the loss did not fall upon the merchant, but upon the consumer. Mr. S. asserted it fell upon the country; and so far from the expense of the proposed armament being equal to the loss sustained by captures, it would not, in his opinion, be a tenth part of the amount, for whatever the plunderers got this country lost. Mr. S. said he had made a rough calculation of what would be the expense of three frigates, of 32 guns, and six sloops of war of 16 guns, and found it to be $926,000, including the equipment and manning for one year.

Mr. Giles said, the gentleman from South Carolina talked of defensive measures, but his plans were offensive. That gentleman had undertaken to doubt the right of France to declare her ports rebel ports. Was this defensive? Every nation had this right. It was not long since Great Britain exercised it against us. Yet, aided by a convoy, he wished to push our trade to these ports. This would not only be hazarding the peace of the country, but taking the direct road to war.

Besides, said Mr. G., could it be expected that six or ten frigates could convoy all our vessels? No; not a twentieth part of them. They could, therefore, be of little use, but might be the means of producing the greatest evil to the country.

Mr. Baldwin said, in all their determinations with respect to a naval force, however great the emergency, it has always been determined to build, rather than purchase vessels, and he saw no reason for departing from this mode in the present instance.

After some objections from Mr. W. Smith to the building plan, which he said would take three or four years to furnish the proposed vessels, whereas merchant vessels might be immediately purchased, which would answer the purpose of small frigates, the committee rose, reported the two resolutions, which the House took up and agreed to, and committees were appointed to report upon them by bills or otherwise.