Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 2 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Thursday, April 26.

The bill for establishing an Executive Department, to be denominated the Department of the Navy, was read the third time and passed—42 to 27.

Military Appropriations.

On motion, the House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill appropriating for the Military Establishment for the year 1798; when, the question for filling the blank in the Quartermaster's Department with $200,000 again recurring,

Mr. Gallatin moved to fill the blank with $150,000, which was the sum he had proposed on a former day, since which, he said, the House had received a number of statements from the Secretary of War, in order to induce a larger appropriation. As there seemed to be a general concurrence of opinion to restrict the expenses of the War Department, he wished some gentlemen, better able to do it than himself, would compare the number of troops in service with the sums there required. Mr. G. noticed a number of items which appeared to him unaccountably extravagant, and contrasted the very great expense incurred on the North-western frontier with that of the troops employed on the seaboard. Mr. G. also took a view of the expenses under this head from the year 1789 to the present time, in order to show that $150,000 would be a sufficient appropriation.

After commenting pretty freely and at large on the estimates from the War Office, Mr. G. said, he believed there was some radical defect with respect to the connection subsisting between the Accountant's department, the Treasury and War Departments, which prevented a proper investigation of accounts. So far as relates to the Treasury Department, the accounts were always very clear, and there was no ground of complaint; but, from the connection which subsists between the War Department and the Accountant's department, there seemed to be a want of responsibility.

In the details which had been laid before the House, Mr. G. said, he found items under the head of contingencies, which he should never have expected to have found there; one was for the pay of an inspector of the troops and garrisons of the United States, at a salary of sixty dollars a month. He could not say such an officer was not necessary; but if he was, he would say he ought to have been provided for by law. The other item was for a much larger sum, viz: the pay of an engineer of the fortifications of the United States, at a salary of three thousand dollars a year, which was a salary greater than that of the Secretary of War. It appears that this engineer was engaged for three years; but, after he had been some time in the service, two thousand dollars were given him over and above his pay, to relinquish his contract.

After a few observations from Mr. Dana, in favor of the Secretary of War,

Mr. Shepard rose, and went over the different items contained in the statement read yesterday, particularly the boatmen, $13,000; the pack-horsemen, $5,000; the wagoners, $7,000; the laborers, $3,000; the armorers, $6,000; the artificers, $14,000; hire of expresses, $6,000; and fuel, $8,000. He could not tell how so many boatmen, pack-horsemen, and wagoners, could be employed (for it was not for boats, pack-horses, and wagons, but for the men alone;) and what so many laborers could be employed in he could not imagine. He did not see why the soldiers could not do all the labor the Army had to do themselves. When he was in the Army, he was at no expense like this. And how the repairing the arms for three thousand men could cost $6,000 he could not tell; nor could he see how $14,000 could be expended on artificers. If we were to be involved in war, it would not do to expend money in this manner. It was easy to write down thirty, fifty, or one hundred thousand dollars for this or that, but when the taxes came to be laid, the money would not be so easily raised. Mr. S. passed over a number of articles, till he came to fuel. He thought $8,000 a year for fuel, in a country where the trees were ready to fall upon them, was a very exorbitant charge. While he was in the Army, it never cost him sixpence for fuel. The United States had better purchase the land upon which the timber grows, at once; they would be able to get it for a much less sum. If these expenses were to be incurred for five thousand men, what would be the expense of an Army of thirty thousand men? This estimate, he was sure, must be much too large; and it became Congress to be careful how they gave encouragement to such charges as these, for the country would scarcely be able to support the expense of any considerable establishment if more economy was not used.

The question on filling the blank with two hundred thousand dollars, was put, and negatived without a division.

Mr. Gallatin moved to fill the blank with $150,000. He said that, with respect to the integrity of the Secretary of War, he did not doubt it in the least; as to his talents he had no opportunity of forming a correct judgment of them; he was, however, some judge of accounts, and he saw enough of them to authorize the declaration which he had made as to the improper connection of the different departments. He had spoken of facts only.

The question for filling the blank with $150,000 was put, and carried without a division.

After agreeing to several other items, amongst which was one for the vessels on the Lakes, the committee rose, the House agreed to the amendment, and the bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading.

Presents to Ministers.

The Speaker said he had received a letter this morning, signed Thomas Pinckney, which he was desired to lay before the House. It was accordingly read. It stated that when he (Mr. Pinckney) had concluded the late treaty with the Spanish Government, the Spanish Minister, the Prince of Peace, informed him the presents usually given in such cases would be prepared for him; and that also when he took leave of the British Court, the like information was given to him by the Minister there. To both of which he replied, that the Constitution of the United States forbade its Ministers from receiving any present from any foreign Prince or State, without the consent of Congress; that in due time he would ask that consent, and act accordingly. This letter asks for the determination of Congress.

It was moved by Mr. Rutledge to refer this letter to a select committee.

Mr. Macon wished it to go to a Committee of the whole House.

After some observations, the latter motion was negatived, and the former carried.