Thursday, February 27.
Another member, to wit, John Smith, from New York, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat.
Case of Jonathan Robbins.
Mr. Davis said, as the House had yesterday thought proper to negative a proposition to discharge the Committee of the Whole from the further consideration of the business, and as one great motive for that motion was the incompetency of evidence before the House, and as he knew it was in the power of the House to procure that evidence by a proper application, he hoped gentlemen would now indulge him in the adoption of the following, which he moved, viz:
Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested to direct the proper officer to lay before this House a copy of the proceedings of the court held in the district of South Carolina, in the case of Thomas Nash, calling himself Jonathan Robbins.
Mr. Bayard said, if he was persuaded, or if the gentleman could convince him that there was any particular evidence in the hands of any officer that would tend to throw such light as to give the least explanation to the case, he certainly would be willing to accord with the resolution; but he believed every necessary fact was before the House, and this had been acknowledged by several gentlemen. If the object was to prove that Nash was an American citizen, and that he was impressed, that could not be necessary as it respected the resolutions of the gentleman from New York, for that gentleman himself had acknowledged that he believed no such thing, but that the whole claim was falsehood. Would the gentleman, then, inform the House what point he wished to ascertain, or in what he expected additional proof? He wished information, farther, who was the "proper officer" to whom reference was expected to be made. There are but two officers at all in view, one is the Secretary of State, the other the District Judge of South Carolina; the gentleman could not suppose that the Judge would be able to transmit the records of that court previous to the adjournment of the House; and if it could be obtained, no evidence to the point could be expected from him. If, on the other hand, it was meant to call on the Secretary of State, it was not to be expected, from the nature of the case, that any more documents were in his hands than those already furnished; he had given copies of the correspondence and requisition, which, it might be fairly inferred, from the nature of his office, was all of which he could be possessed. But if any gentleman doubted this fact, he could apply to the office of the Secretary of State, from whom he could procure whatever was in his possession.
If it was the intention of the House to close this very disagreeable business in the present session, they must negative the resolution and let the discussion go forward. The gentleman who brought forward the resolution ought to have been provided with every document that was necessary to support the charges, before he suffered them to appear. However, he did not think but the gentleman who proposed the resolutions thought his grounds were quite sufficient to support them.
Mr. Nicholas said he always believed that the testimony was incomplete, but when he heard a gentleman get up and mention particular testimony which he considered so important that without it he should not know how to vote, whatever, Mr. N. said, might have been his former satisfaction as to the establishment of the points, he certainly must now be inclined to grant gentlemen every point of evidence that they should think necessary, if within the reach of the House.
One particular piece of testimony had been mentioned, viz: that the man had filed an affidavit that he was an American citizen and was impressed on board a British man-of-war. Could any gentleman pretend to say that no inference might be drawn from this source and the concomitant facts? The gentleman from New York, to be sure, had declared his satisfaction with the facts that had been produced to the House, but did the gentleman from Delaware know that this was the case with any other gentleman in the House? That gentleman's conclusions and impressions were not to be taken as the opinions of others, nor were others obliged to be satisfied because he was; and therefore to couple others in a measure to which they were not privy, and to ascribe opinions to them which they had not expressed, was at least unfair.
Mr. Dana thought this a most extraordinary resolution indeed? Was the President of the United States the clerk of the court, to keep the records of it? What had the President to do with the proceedings of that court? It was certainly a total departure from all the forms of judicial proceedings to suppose a thing of the kind. The gentlemen must certainly have mistaken the situation held by the President, or they would never have made such a vast departure from order and propriety of proceeding. The President is not the public accuser; he is not to be called upon for papers with which he has nothing to do. When he found gentlemen outraging every thing that belonged to judicial propriety; when he found them stumbling into error after error, and departing totally from all jurisprudential propriety, Mr. D. said, he could not avoid rising to oppose it.
Mr. Livingston said he did hope that this motion would not have been brought forward; but as he meant to vote in favor of it, after having declared his satisfaction with the documents, as sufficient to support his resolutions, he should be accused of advocating a question of which he had before spoken apparently differently, unless he should now give his reasons; and lest he should be accused of a desire to keep alive a calumny against the President of the United States, an effect which had been stated, he took opportunity to answer the insinuation by saying that he as much abhorred so mean a principle as any gentleman in the House.
Mr. Marshall said, it was with no inconsiderable regret that he perceived so much of the time of the House, which ought to be devoted to more beneficial purposes, employed in preliminary discussion. He thought that it was impossible the House could agree to a postponement, which the motion under consideration must cause when it was reflected how much time must be employed in procuring those papers—it could not take less than a month; for they could only be found, he would presume to say in the Court of the District of South Carolina: it was therefore scarcely to be expected that they could be obtained until just before the rising of the House, a period, if they arrived before the House rose, too late for their consideration.
Mr. Bayard said he could not distinguish between the present motion and one yesterday negatived, because it must operate as a discharge upon the Committee of the whole House. There could be no doubt but the Secretary of State had furnished all the papers relative to the business in his possession—indeed, he could assuredly say so. He said he held in his hand a letter from the Secretary of State, in answer to one from an honorable member of the House inquiring whether there were any more documents in his office; he answered that he had no certified copy whatever but those which he had furnished the President with, from whom they came to the House. Gentlemen must then perceive that the mere operation of this resolution was an absolute and inevitable postponement of the business till another session. Many gentlemen, who were yesterday ashamed to vote for a postponement, would now have a plausible cover for their vote by calling for additional proof, to accomplish the object of the resolution of yesterday; and thus he feared it would have many advocates, but, however specious the pretext, he hoped it would not be carried.
Mr. Rutledge conceived this motion to be the same as to postpone the business. Further information was wanted, and that information could alone come from South Carolina. He wished the gentleman from Kentucky would read the resolution before he pressed his motion: he would find that the District Judge was not charged; no, it was only a charge against the Executive; there was not a word of irregularity of proceeding in the Court, but the Executive was seriously charged.
Mr. Davis explained. He said his objects were to have the record in order to see whether Robbins did produce a certificate that he was an American citizen; to see a copy of the warrant by which he was committed; and thirdly, to know what stratagem or what proceedings were used to take him out of the cognizance of the Court, where he must have remained, if the President had not interfered. These things he wished to ascertain, but that would be impossible without the court record.
Mr. Rutledge said, he conceived this to be the object, but he by no means thought that the gentleman would be satisfied on these points, were he to be possessed of the record. The gentleman might inquire the reasons for the Executive and Judicial conduct being as it was, but perhaps he would not receive the information. Every gentleman in the House would unite their vote to procure all the testimony within their reach, so as to enable the House to prosecute the business. We know, said Mr. R., what monstrous clamor has been raised about this business; we know that great pains have been taken to make the people believe that their fellow-citizen has been torn from his country; that he has been impressed into a foreign service; that the treaty has been violated; that their fellow-citizen has been taken to a foreign country, and there been tried in a summary manner and executed. We have been told for months past that this business would be inquired into; we wish not to avoid it; we will by all means in our power assist it; we have done it. Some time since papers were asked for, we agreed with gentlemen that they should be furnished; it was done, and they are now on your table. They have been there many days; so that gentlemen had sufficient time, long before this, to have known whether they were satisfied or not. The gentleman himself who brought forward the resolutions affected to be satisfied, but, in compliance with the wish of his friends, he now wishes to postpone it. We want to bring the matter to a decision, and so far as we can accommodate gentlemen and avoid delay we will do it.
Mr. Nicholson rose to correct what he considered a mistake in the gentleman last up, (Mr. Rutledge,) when he said that the Executive only was implicated in the resolutions; he conceived that the District Judge of South Carolina was implicated, and that the papers of that court were necessary to examine the conduct of that judge. He read the resolution, and contended that his deduction was accurate. Mr. N. said he wanted to know whether the District Judge of South Carolina had committed this man for trial; this would appear or be disproved by the warrant.
That the President of the United States was not to be considered as the servant of that House, he was willing to admit, but he did not think that the President might, with propriety, apply to the judge of the district for the documents of the court; and he did not believe that the President would object to make the application. However, the object he presumed was to procure the papers, no matter from whom; that being the object, he hoped the mover of the resolution would withdraw it, in order to accommodate it more to the feelings of some members in the House, by adopting something like the following:
Resolved, That the Speaker of the House of Representatives be requested to procure, from the Clerk of the District Court of South Carolina, copies, under seal, of the proceedings of that court, together with the evidence produced in the case relative to the requisition for Thomas Nash, alias Jonathan Robbins, who was delivered to His Britannic Majesty's Consul.
Mr. Davis withdrew his resolution, and Mr. Nicholas moved the substitute, which was now before the House.
Mr. Harper moved a postponement of this resolution to this day week. The object of the resolution which was before the Committee of the Whole was twofold—a charge on the President, and a charge on the District Judge. So much as related to the President of the United States, it was manifest that the testimony called for by this resolution could have no effect whatever upon him, because he left the whole to the judge. The President went no further than to declare that if it should appear that the acts committed by this man came within the purview of the British Treaty, the man ought to be delivered up conformably to that stipulation.
Mr. Nicholas thought, with the gentleman last up, that if the only inquiry was as to the conduct of the President, or if the inquiry was only to respect the judge, the papers might be dispensed with; but it was otherwise—the conduct of both was called forth to view by the resolutions, but how far the conduct of either may be reprehensible, depended on the testimony which might appear before the House. It was impossible to say what the President had done until the documents should be seen. If gentlemen refused the inquiry being made of the court in South Carolina, they, by that act, made the President answerable for every part of the facts, which he believed they would not pretend to do. He really believed it extremely important to know what steps had been taken in this very serious business, to know whether the man was in course for trial, and whether the President had acted in the hasty and premature manner which was stated, in delivering him up.
Mr. Gallatin could not help observing the disposition which gentlemen evinced of placing the opinions and sensations expressed by one gentleman to the account of others. To take a fair view of the resolutions, what did they amount to? Nothing more than the deductions which one man had drawn from the message sent to this House by the Executive: these deductions, in the form of a resolution, he had submitted to the consideration of the Committee of the Whole. Now, except it could be proved that that gentleman had made all the deductions of and acted for every gentleman, there could be no ground for saying that every gentleman would be satisfied, without the evidence which might be collected from the records of the District Court of South Carolina. Was any gentleman in the House bound to be satisfied, with the gentleman from New York, that all the facts necessary to be known were furnished? Was every gentleman in the House bound to confine himself solely to the resolutions before the House? Certainly not. It could not be denied that the evidence now required was essential to a full investigation of the conduct of the judge, who was the principal agent of the Executive in this case.
Mr. H. Lee hoped that the gentleman from South Carolina would withdraw his motion. He would mention some reasons which would induce him to vote differently from gentlemen with whom he usually had the honor to vote. Considering this a question of very great importance, not only to the American people, and to the reputation of the House, but also to the highly respectable character presiding over our Government, he trusted the House would, in its whole process, be led by principles so fair and candid, as not to leave the least room for a charge of derogation from its own dignity or of the great subject it was discussing.
He would vote for the motion calling for the papers, but he would do it with an expectation that it would not postpone the discussion of the business so far as related to the conduct of the President of the United States. It appeared that the conduct of the President, as charged, was fully before the House; there could be no difficulty therefore to proceed on it; but, as far as respected the judge, Mr. L. trusted the record of the court would be sent, for he thought it but fair to gratify gentlemen who considered there was any material evidence wanting.
Mr. Varnum would vote for the resolution proposed; he thought it was doubtful whether the President had acted with propriety or not; but he believed if there had been any incidental impropriety of conduct, it was never done with an evil design, nor with a view to interfere with any other department of the Government; but certainly to deny this evidence, which several gentlemen had stated to be necessary to assist them in making up their minds, would stamp a censure on the conduct of those officers as great as that contained in the resolution. He thought the gentleman from New York had a right to bring the subject to the view of the House. If he saw any proceeding which to him appeared dangerous, it was his duty to commence an investigation. No man ought to flinch from what he thought right. The only way to give public satisfaction, in a matter that had so much engaged public attention, was to give all the evidence which could be procured, and let the matter be investigated to the bottom; and, most assuredly, the only way effectually to clear the characters implicated, if they were innocent, was to leave no doubt as to the desire of the House to scrutinize their conduct. But, certainly, the very great reluctance which gentlemen showed to procure all the evidence, and, after all, their denial of it, must leave a suspicion bordering much on guilt.
Mr. Bayard rose, in answer to Mr. Gallatin and others, and observed, that, with respect to Nash calling himself an American citizen before that court, (an object which it was desired to prove by this call for evidence,) they were asked to admit the fact. Mr. B. asked, would these gentlemen admit that Nash was guilty of the dreadful murders committed on board the British frigate? Would they admit that he falsely made the claim? However, he had no disposition to rest on that point. Another fact, however, which it was required to admit was as to the jurisdiction of the court of the United States upon the case. Mr. B. denied this, and repeated the former arguments in proof of his opinion. He insisted that the whole arrest and proceeding was had at the instance of the British Consul and Minister, in proof of which he quoted their letters. The record, he said, could not possibly dispense any light to this fact; the record would only give the warrant and some of the depositions first taken before the judge; but as to the court being designated where the case was to be tried, he contended that it was not usual to insert it in the warrant—he never saw one so drawn. It was possible that Nash was committed with a view to be delivered up to the British, before the letter was received by the judge from the President; and it was very reasonable that the whole previous business was at the instigation of the British agent, but it was impossible to prove that jurisdiction had attached before the letter directing the delivery to be made was received.
Mr. Jones said, that finding himself, from the vote he was about to give, implicated in the charge made by the gentleman from Delaware, (Mr. Bayard,) that gentlemen who were yesterday ashamed to vote for the proposition to discharge the committee from further consideration of the subject, in general and express terms, because it would imply a distrust of the sufficiency of the ground on which to support the principles of the resolutions, were now disposed to effect the same object by a decision which would, in fact, go to evade the question during the present session, he felt himself impelled, by a respect for his own conduct, to explain the motives which would govern his vote on the present question. He considered the case which had been called into view by the proposition of the gentleman from New York, (Mr. Livingston,) as one that involved in it the dearest interests and deepest concerns of the people of the United States. The gentleman from Delaware (Mr. Bayard) and the gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. Dana) had indulged themselves in the most violent invectives and unnecessary abuse against the unfortunate, the obscure, and insignificant character, now dead, who was the subject of this proposition. On this topic they had exercised all their powers of passionate declamation. If this was a grateful theme for the employment of their talents, he did not envy them the enjoyment of it. How that kind of argument would apply to the question, he left to the House to determine.
For his part, Mr. J. said, he deemed it totally immaterial whether the man was, as they had declared, an Irishman or not; whether he was a Turk, a Hottentot, or a native-born American, if he claimed to be an American citizen, and produced a certificate in due form, under the signature of a proper officer, of his citizenship, and that claim was slighted by the judge, or declared immaterial, and the fact not inquired into of his being a citizen, then he conceived the safety of the citizens of America to be equally put in jeopardy, as if the man had been born and raised in Charleston, in the circle of the judge's own acquaintance. If, he asked, a dagger aimed at my breast by an assassin in the dark, should by mistake or impetuosity pierce the bosom of another, would not the discovery of such an attempt awaken alarm, and demand a precaution for my future safety? Certainly it would. So in this case, if this man claimed to be a citizen, and wore about him the legal voucher of that claim, and if he was told in the presence of American citizens, "it is of no importance whether you are, or are not a citizen, that is a point of no concern in the case," notwithstanding it may afterwards be found he was no citizen, yet would it equally involve the safety of every true citizen who might fall into similar circumstances. We may congratulate ourselves that it has not fallen on a fellow-citizen, but we ought still to improve the lesson this case has presented. Mr. J. hoped that it would be improved, and that, at least, legislative provisions would be made to prevent this decision from operating on a citizen, if such a case should occur in future.
The question was then taken on the motion of Mr. Harper, to postpone the consideration of the motion of Mr. Nicholson, for a call of the record of the District Court of South Carolina, for one week, and negatived—yeas 32, nays 63.
The question then recurred upon adopting the resolutions.
Mr. Marshall spoke at length against it. He contended there was no prospect of coming to a decision of the original question this session, if this were adopted; and asked if the character of the President of the United States ought to be held up in the suspicious view in which the resolution placed it, until the next session of Congress? He hoped not. It seemed to him that a postponement amounted to a declaration to the people of America that there was much cause for suspicion, and that additional evidences were wanted to substantiate it.
Mr. Nicholas replied to Mr. M., and contended that the whole truth of the case was to come out of the additional testimony now asked for.
An adjournment was then called for, and negatived—yeas 30.
Mr. Randolph spoke in favor of the resolution, and in answer to Mr. Marshall.
The question was then taken that the House do agree to the motion first proposed, and passed in the negative—yeas 44, nays 57.
And then the House adjourned.