Wednesday, February 26.
Case of Jonathan Robbins.
Mr. Davis moved that the Committee of the whole House be discharged from the further consideration of the resolutions proposed by Mr. Livingston and Mr. Bayard, on the affair of Jonathan Robbins. The small progress, Mr. D. said, which was made yesterday in the discussion, fully convinced his mind that nothing at all would be done in it; besides, were he convinced that the subject would be impartially conducted, he did not know of any possible good that could arise from the adoption of the resolutions. If there had been any error in the proceedings of the Executive, he conceived that error would correct itself. If there was an improper interference, he was certain it could not have arisen from improper motives, and therefore he sincerely hoped he should not be called upon to give an opinion on the subject. Nor, on the other hand, was he at all prepared to compliment the Executive, or any officer of the Government, for having done what he thought to be right. If he had done right, it was his duty. He did not think it of any great importance; but, most assuredly, if the argument was extended, it would be made a case of much importance. It was better, however, to let the case of Jonathan Robbins sleep in the Committee of the Whole, where it then was. He was not prepared to criminate, nor was he prepared to applaud.
Mr. Randolph said, that no gentleman had a higher respect for the motives of the gentleman from Kentucky than himself; but, however disagreeable it might be, he must differ from him in his present opinion. He really hoped the gentleman would reconsider the motion he had made, and not stop the gentleman from New York in this early stage of the business. If there were any defects in the papers, and their authenticity was questionable, it must not arise from the gentleman from New York, but from those whose duty it was to furnish all the facts relative to the subject. He was obliged to read a printed paper, because those with whom the authoritative copies are, have not thought proper to furnish the House with them. He hoped, if a stop was put to the proceedings, it would not be to discharge the committee, but to call for authentic copies of all the papers within the reach of the Government. It must be acknowledged that the man whose case the House are considering did put in his claims to citizenship, and to the protection of his country on that account. If that acknowledgment is refused on account of the paper which has been produced being a newspaper, reference must be made to what is within the reach of the House—more authentic papers.
Mr. H. Lee considered the motion would have the complete effect any gentleman could wish whose desire it was to reprobate the conduct of the Administration of our Government. How could the motion be necessary—how be useful? If they were to ask more evidence, said Mr. L., I would vote for it to be produced; they have brought the subject before the House—let us see it in the purest colors which it can be placed in. We are ready to meet them here; we are willing they should have every evidence that can be obtained to elucidate their charge; but let not the Executive be hung up to reproach without a trial; let not suspicion be encouraged, which must have all the effects of a substantiated charge. I wish them to go on with the discussion, that all the truth may be disclosed, and every fair light be given which the case will bear; for now the people of the United States have their eyes fixed upon our proceedings on this important question.
Mr. Macon was in favor of the motion. If the Committee of the Whole was not to be discharged, he hoped at least the subject would be postponed till the public business of the session was over; there were many public bills, he said, that must be passed. The House was called upon to judge with almost no testimony, and yet upon this uncertain ground, perhaps a whole week might be spent of the most precious time of the House; for if the House was to rise at the time proposed, the loss of this time would certainly be felt.
As to the impression it would leave on the minds of the people, they had as many facts to judge from as the House, and they certainly would form an opinion, whether the House did so, or not. Gentlemen were very much mistaken, he said, if they undertook to lead the people; they would think, and they would show what their judgment was when a proper time came for that purpose. The time the people would take to show their approbation or disapprobation of the measures of the Administration was at elections, and then they would do it.
Mr. Dana was against the postponement of the subject, or the rising of the committee. It was to be recollected that the business had assumed its present shape only in consequence of the zeal of the gentleman from New York, and his coadjutors, to censure the Executive. On the 7th of February, it was committed to the whole House; contrary to the opinion of a number of gentlemen, who wished the facts investigated by a select committee; thirteen days then elapsed before he had prepared his resolutions—resolutions not calculated to make an inquiry into the conduct of the Executive, but expressive of the most pungent censure upon his conduct. These resolutions were produced upon the papers which, at the desire of those gentlemen, were submitted to the House. The only question then, is, Do the papers upon which those resolutions are predicated warrant the censure contained in them, or not?—It certainly would be a high reproach to the very idea of a public inquisition to admit more evidence upon those grounds. Still, however, let gentlemen go on in their heterogeneous proceedings, the House would have the wisdom justly to appreciate the various attempts made to clear themselves of a predicament in which their over-arduous attempts to censure had thrown them.
Mr. Livingston conceived it his duty to answer the observations of the gentleman from Connecticut, (Mr. Dana,) as to the resolutions being founded upon the facts then before the House. He did not think the facts were precisely sufficient to warrant every idea contained in the resolutions. When the original call for papers was agreed to by the House, he had hoped that something more authentic than newspaper testimony would have been referred to by the Executive; and upon that he was now compelled to act, if at all. The gentleman has said that my zeal and that of my coadjutors, to censure the Executive, has brought us into this situation. Who, sir, I would ask the gentleman, are my coadjutors? That gentleman himself was my coadjutor, and every gentleman in the House, because the resolution was adopted. The House directed the inquiry, and every gentleman must therefore take the burden, in part, with me.
Mr. Craik said, that very early in this business he thought the House were entering into it very improperly, either having nothing at all to do with it, or else taking wrong measures, if they had; he thought then, and was yet of opinion, that if the object was to impeach the President, measures ought to have been taken accordingly. He never did look upon the House of Representatives as having either the power to censure or to approbate the conduct of the Executive, and, therefore, he equally disapproved of the resolutions of the gentlemen from New York and Delaware; and, upon that ground, he felt strongly inclined to vote with the gentleman from Kentucky for giving the whole subject the go by, and getting clear of it by any possible means.
Mr. Harper agreed with the gentleman, that it would be folly for the House to spend time in useless discussion, which could lead to no decision; but, viewing this resolution as he did, he must conclude it of more importance; he thought it the direct road to an impeachment of the President of the United States, and, if so, surely it must appear important. The resolution declared, in express terms, that the Executive had exercised unconstitutional powers—one of the most dangerous crimes that he could commit. If he had so exercised his power, the inevitable consequence must be, that the President of the United States must be impeached by this House. Then, how could any gentleman say this was a trifling question, and one with which the House had nothing at all to do? Certainly no question can be more important.
Mr. Rutledge regretted that he could not join with his friend from Maryland, (Mr. Craik,) in thinking this consideration useless; he believed the attention of the people had been called to view this subject, and they were anxiously looking for a decision in some way. Neither did he think, with his honorable friend, that the House had nothing to do with it, because no impeachment could grow out of it. It was impossible to say what the gentleman meditated in his resolutions, but one thing was certain, if the gentleman has wished to promote an impeachment, he could not have taken a more direct means for it, if the resolutions should be carried.
Mr. Kitchell thought no good could arise from the investigation of this subject, because he did not know what was to be done in it, let the decision be what it might. The gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Harper) wished to have an opportunity of showing that every part of the resolution was built on false ground. Every gentleman in the House was not so fond of speaking nor of hearing as was that gentleman, and he hoped, merely on that account, that the House would not spend time on what (in his opinion) could not possibly lead to impeachment. What effect could a discussion have, but to show the world that there were parties in the House, and to raise a rancorous disposition? He did not know what there was in the resolution that could lead to an impeachment, nor did he know what the House, in their censorial capacity, had to do but to impeach. He believed it out of the power of the House to applaud. In short, he did not think they had any thing to do with it.
Mr. Nicholas hoped the discussion would proceed. Although there might not be sufficient ground on which to impeach the Executive, he could not agree that, therefore, no inquiry ought to be made into his conduct; there might be an error in his conduct, and yet no impeachment be necessary to be raised out of it; and, if so, it would be extremely wrong to suffer it to go out to the world without a decision, after the subject had once been taken up by the House. Where there might be no bad intention or wicked design, the action might be of a dangerous tendency, and proper to be inquired into, in order to express an opinion thereupon. Mr. N. said he was well pleased that his opinion, that the motion ought to be negatived, accorded with that of the gentleman from South Carolina, because it would afford him an opportunity of showing what he said he could show.
Mr. Bayard had no doubt of the competency of the House either to impeach, to censure, or to approbate the conduct of the Executive, and of course both the resolutions were in their power.
Several gentlemen had intimated that the authentic evidence and the whole of the documents were not before the House, and that the Executive Department was to blame for the deficiency. It appeared that the gentleman himself had forgotten the import of his resolution; it called for such documents as might be in possession of the Department of State. Now, what could possibly be in possession of that Department? The President of the United States had his duties to perform, and the judge of the district his duties; each had their separate documents; and, as neither interfered with the other, therefore, it could not be expected to be in the power of the President to furnish the papers belonging to the courts of South Carolina, any further than they came within the joint duties of both. Agreeably to treaty, the British Consul made a requisition for the person; a copy of this, and the several letters and instructions, were sent to the House, but it was not in the power of the Executive to order the judge to furnish him with a record of the proceedings; he was not bound to furnish it if the President had called for it, and no doubt he had furnished the House with every paper in his possession.
Mr. Otis said, when first the motion was made by the gentleman from Kentucky, he felt for a moment inclined to lean to it; the motives of that gentleman appeared to be so candid and liberal, that, for the moment, Mr. O. confessed, his feelings got the better of his reason. But a short reflection induced him to change an opinion thus hastily formed, and he felt satisfied that to vote with him, would be to display, in the conduct of gentlemen who wished to support the Administration of this country, worse than censure. He joined that gentleman in regret that it had gone so far, but certainly it was a subject of the most irritating nature possible: a charge the most serious; a breach of law by the Executive Magistrate, who is bound to support it and see it carried into effect. It is certainly a charge of much importance, and however disagreeable it might feel to him, Mr. O. said, he must vote that every argument should be used that could possibly tend to substantiate the charge, that nothing of truth might be hidden.
Mr. O. said he did not know to what points the evidence required by the gentleman from New York could apply, except it was to that of his being an American citizen, and of his being impressed. An affidavit was produced to prove these facts, but it would be found from an examination of the documents that nothing relating to those points was in the office of the Department of State; for the date of the affidavit of Robbins is the 25th of July, but the order of the Secretary of State bears date the 5th of June, so that no papers as to his claim can be in the possession of that department. Mr. O. thought the documents before the House contained every thing that was important to the point.
Mr. Craik was sorry that gentlemen who advocated this motion should be charged with an opposition to the administration of Government; he believed his conduct had heretofore evinced a different line of conduct. He still denied that the mode taken by the resolution could lead to impeachment. It certainly did contain a very great censure, and one which the House had no authority to inflict.
Mr. Gallatin considered the motion to be grounded on two ideas; that there was not sufficient foundation for the House to act upon, and therefore that it was necessary to discharge the committee, or postpone the subject for want of further evidence.
It is clear, said Mr. G., that the evidence is not sufficient to impeach the District Judge of South Carolina. If an impeachment of him was the object, it would be impossible to carry it forward without an authoritative copy of the record of the court; but if there was no intention to impeach, he did not think there was any material evidence wanted in order to decide upon the resolution, since it only meant an implication of censure upon the Executive and the District Judge, and not impeachment.
Mr. G. agreed there was at first sight some weight in the sentiment expressed by the gentleman from Maryland, (Mr. Craik,) that the House had only a power to impeach but not to censure; but certainly, when it was considered that an act might be committed without any ill motive, and yet the act be injurious, it could not be the subject of impeachment, but it might be of censure. The same act committed with a criminal motive would be impeachable, which without it would be of a nature not to admit of it.
Again: Mr. G. thought that though the House might have ground whereupon to censure, they ought not, at any time; but they had exercised that power. They had in a number of cases approved of the conduct of the President, and if the act of approbation had been done, they surely had as much power to disapprove and censure.
The question was then taken on the motion to discharge the Committee of the Whole from the further consideration, and negatived—yeas 14, nays 76.