Tuesday, April 24.
Mr. W. C. C. Claiborne, from the committee appointed, reported a bill directing the payment of a detachment of militia, for services performed in the year 1794, under Major James Orr, which was twice read and committed.
Provisional Army.
A bill from the Senate, authorizing the President of the United States to raise a provisional army of 20,000 men, was read the first time; and upon motion made to read it a second time,
Mr. Nicholas objected to the second reading of the bill, as he believed it possessed a principle which could not be assented to. He did not believe it was necessary to pass a bill of this sort under any possible modification. The highest act of Legislative power was, by it, proposed to be transferred to the Executive, viz: the power to raise an army, which he was to exercise at his pleasure. If an army was necessary, the Legislature ought to raise it; but he did not think it was necessary at present. Indeed, when discussing the bill for providing a naval armament, gentlemen had said that members had been willing to make preparations for defence on the land, where there was no danger, but were unwilling to do it at sea, where the greatest might be expected. He did not believe there could be any necessity for going into a measure of this kind at the present session. In case of predatory attack, the militia would be equal to repelling them. Mr. N. said he lived in a part of the country perhaps more defenceless than any other; but, so far as he or his constituents were concerned, he did not wish for a force of this kind. He was willing to confide for defence on the militia of the country.
Mr. Otis thought it very extraordinary that the gentleman from Virginia should endeavor to surprise a part of this House into a decision upon this bill in this stage of it. He hoped he would consent to its taking the usual course. The gentleman had gone into the merits of the bill; he could not follow him, because he had not heard it read; so far as he did hear it, he was of opinion that the gentleman had anticipated objections which did not lie against it. He seemed to suppose that this bill declared that a standing army should be raised. It does no such thing; it only declares that if existing circumstances shall make it necessary, then the President shall raise an army not exceeding a certain number of men. It may happen that the necessity may not exist; but the gentleman from Virginia must be able to fathom the intentions of France further than he could pretend to do, if he could say that no such necessity would exist. If what was said by the agents of that Government to our Envoys could be relied on, there was a direct threat to ravage our coasts. He hoped, however, no invasion would take place; but, when he said this, he calculated upon the French acting as reasonable beings, but perhaps he calculated delusively. Indeed, they are now threatening the invasion of a country, where one may suppose they would have as little chance of succeeding as in this country; and was the idea, then, to be so much scoffed at, as not to suffer a bill, intending to provide against it, to be read a second time? If the arms of our citizens were to be tied up, and our militia were many of them without arms, with what should we oppose such an attempt, if it were made? What, said he, is to prevent Victor Hugues sending over two or three frigates? It had been said that he expected open war, and that he was ready for it. In short, he thought it would be the most disgraceful conduct that ever was attempted in that House, if the bill should be rejected without a second reading. It would be in vain to talk of unanimity, if a bill from the Senate was to be treated in this way. If the gentleman persisted in his motion, he trusted he would find himself nearly alone.
Mr. Gallatin wondered that the gentleman from Massachusetts should be so greatly surprised at a motion of this kind, because if he had attended to the rules of the House, he would have found that it was a course expressly prescribed by them. It had been acted upon before during this session. The principle, he said, was well understood. When a member disapproves of the principle of a bill altogether, and does not wish to go at all into a discussion of the detail, he moves to reject it before it goes to a second reading.
This bill goes to authorize the President to raise an army. He did not know what was meant by a provisional army. He did not find any thing said in the Constitution of the United States relative to provisional armies, or of giving the President power to raise armies. He found mentioned there no other kind of defence than an army and militia. It says Congress shall raise and support an army, not provide for the raising of an army; but this bill is to enable the President of the United States to raise an army. The constitution has declared that the raising of an army is placed in Congress, but this bill goes to declare that this power shall be vested by law in the President. That is the principle of the bill: and if Congress were once to admit the principle that they have a right to vest in the President powers placed in their hands by the constitution, that instrument would become a piece of blank paper. If it were to be admitted in one case, it would be admitted in another; and, if admitted in one department, it might be admitted in another. The power to raise taxes, he said, is contained in the same article of the constitution which says Congress shall raise armies. And if they could delegate the power of raising an army to the President, why not do the same with respect to the power of raising taxes? He supposed the House would next hear of provisional taxes, to be raised if the President shall think fit. Mr. G., therefore, thought the principle inadmissible. If the circumstances of the Union required an army, let it be raised; if not, he wished to give no power to raise it—especially, as the President, if he saw necessity, could call Congress together, if he should find that the circumstances of the country required it. Mr. G. thought the House had already decided that no additional army was necessary at present, in agreeing to an additional regiment of artillery; as the select committee, when they brought in that bill, had the report of the Secretary of War before them, which stated, besides the regiment of artillery, that other additional force would be necessary; and having reported no other, it was to be supposed they thought no other necessary. But, if it was thought the House had not gone far enough, he was willing to go farther, but not willing to transfer their power to judge of the propriety of raising an army.
Mr. Dana hoped this bill would not be rejected on its first reading. It required no labored arguments to prove that the motion might be made; but more than had been adduced to show that it ought to be adopted. He thought the gentleman from Massachusetts ought not to have been surprised at this motion, because it was best calculated for exciting alarm. It was said the Senate proceeded in a similar way on the bill sent up from this House for a repeal of the stamp act; but that question had already been agreed upon in the Senate on a distinct proposition, and there was, therefore, no necessity for going again into it. The gentleman from Pennsylvania had said that when the House agreed upon an additional regiment of artillery, they negatively decided against any other standing force. The gentleman might put what construction he pleased upon that vote, he could assure him for himself that he had no such idea when he voted.
This bill, Mr. D. said, provided for the raising of a regular force, in case the President shall think the situation of the country requires it. He is also authorized to accept of the services of the volunteer corps. The bill could be amended in any manner which gentlemen thought proper. But the gentleman from Pennsylvania does not know what a provisional army means. He believed this was no new principle. He believed it was acted upon when the three additional regiments were raised to the then existing corps. It was in principle the same as when an army is directed to be raised, but where the President has power given him to suspend the raising of it, if he shall see it necessary.
Mr. Sewall said that, though the present motion be not irregular in point of form, yet it is a manner of proceeding very objectionable at this time. His colleague had complained of this motion being a surprise upon the House. He had good reason so to consider it. And the House will consider whether it is expedient, without entering into a consideration of the bill, without seeing whether any alteration could be made in it, so as to render it more agreeable to gentlemen, thus to attempt to destroy the bill. What was the motive of the gentleman from Virginia in making the motion might easily be discovered. He had obtained leave of absence, which might have a tendency to hurry him in his political course. He wished to be heard on this subject, but this hurry of his to return home ought not to hurry the House in its proceedings. Those gentlemen who had determined to take this course had the advantage of others who were unprepared for such a motion.
Mr. Harper believed, notwithstanding what had been advanced by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. Gallatin,) that this was a very unprecedented measure; because however prepared the House may be on some occasions, at the first blush of business, to decide upon the abstract principle, yet it was perfectly novel in their proceedings to reject a bill on its first reading, which contains such a variety of propositions, and which is capable of such a variety of modifications as the present. It was also as little consonant with the present situation of the country as it was with their usual modes of proceeding. The allusion to the decision on the bill for repealing the stamp act (as had been shown) was no way applicable. He could see no other view in a proposition of this kind but a determination to resist every measure for the defence of the country. If the intention had not been to destroy the bill, it would have been suffered to have taken its usual course, and attempts would have been made to amend it. If a provisional army was not liked, gentlemen might have had the army immediately raised; or, if 20,000 men were too many, fewer might have been proposed. If gentlemen did not think the army immediately necessary, and did not choose to leave it with the President to judge of that necessity, they might make it to depend upon a declaration of war by France, on an invasion, or in case Victor Hugues were to bring his troops, or send his threatened frigates against us, or if an insurrection should be excited by our enemy, then the President should be empowered to raise an army.
But gentlemen say this bill ought to be rejected, because it is unconstitutional. Could gentlemen be serious in making this objection? Were troops ever raised in a different manner? And if they had the power to authorize the President to raise troops immediately, they could certainly do it under such contingencies as they thought proper. Did not Congress intrust the President with the discretionary power of borrowing money, of, in some cases, fixing salaries, &c., which powers were equally vested in them with the power of raising armies; and this must be the case, except gentlemen insist that Congress should itself do all the acts committed to it; and if so, they must always be in session.
But the gentleman from Pennsylvania says, that if this power be delegated to the President, Congress may as well intrust the President with the power of raising provisional taxes. He had no hesitation in saying, that he believed this might be done; that the House might determine upon a tax, and authorize the collecting of it, only in case the President should find it necessary, or in case a certain event should take place.
With respect, then, to the expediency of the measure—he did not speak of the expediency of raising 20,000 men, because any other number might be determined upon—but as to the thing itself. What is the internal and external state of this country? Do we not know that the enemy has in view a plan upon which they place great reliance—of gaining over to their cause a certain class of men, who abound in the Southern part of this country, and by whose means they intend to subjugate or destroy the country? We do know this—gentlemen from the Southern States know it; yet they say it is impossible to raise any regular force to repel the enemy. He could not believe, that when we had to meet an enemy, who has always fought by means of domestic insurrection, who is now subverting the most ancient Governments in the world by these means, it would be consistent with any maxim of common sense to be unprepared for the worst.
What, said he, is our external situation? Do we not see the nation with whom we are at variance find quarrels with every country who is not strong enough to resist her? Does she not injure us on every side? Do we not hear of depredatory threats, and the mischiefs she has the power of doing us, urged as reasons why we should submit to her? And yet, after being told of these designs, shall we sit with our arms folded, and make no defence? For the measures already taken will be nothing without this. Fortifications would be nothing except supported by a sufficient number of infantry and cavalry.
What, he asked, is the situation of the West Indies? Were they not told that Victor Hugues, with 5,000 of his best troops, is ready to make a blow upon the Southern country, whenever the word of command shall be given? They knew that these troops existed; they had been seen, and the desperate character of their leader was also known. Yet, with this enemy upon our threshold, within four or five days' sail of us, we still fold our arms, and say we will make no defence.
When he reflected upon these things, he could not help deploring that fatal blindness, that stubborn spirit of opposition, in certain gentlemen, which could hide from their view the danger of our present situation; that, at a period when the veil is rending from before the eyes of the community; when those who have been the most blind out-of-doors begin to see, that those gentlemen in this House, who, from their ancient birth and fortunes, might be supposed to possess the true American spirit, should still persist in their blind, their destructive course, was greatly to be lamented. And though he could not doubt the fate of this bill, yet that there should be a few men found supporting measures which tend directly to the destruction of the country, he could not help lamenting.
Mr. Baldwin did not agree with the gentleman who had just sat down, that the present motion was either unprecedented or improper. When it is proposed to make a law on any subject, it presents itself to discussion on two grounds, the principles of the law and the details. The proper stages to debate the general principle on which the law is to be founded, by the rules of this House, are, when it is proposed to introduce the law, and at the third reading, when it is considered as finished, and on its passage; the intermediate stages of the discussion are all supposed to be employed to settle and adjust the detail. He had often regretted that members, having been accustomed to different modes of proceeding in their State Legislatures, were so apt to disturb and keep unsettled their modes of proceeding in this House. He knew it was sometimes a practice, after a bill had been read the second time, and was referred to be shaped and formed by free discussion in Committee of the Whole, a member would rise to amend the bill by striking out the first section, declaring, at the same time, that he made the motion for the purpose of destroying the bill—a mere law fiction, under color of detail and amendment, to contest the original principle and destroy the bill. Without doubt the commencement of the business is the regular stage to contest the principle. If it originates in this House, it is on a motion in Committee of the Whole, expressing in general terms the expediency that such a law should be provided; if it comes from the Senate, the same question presents itself after the first reading, in the words of the present motion, which are the very words prescribed by the stated rule of the House. If on this question the majority of the House appear in favor of the principle of the bill, it goes on through the stages of its detail and formation, and at the third reading the general question occurs again, shall the principle, detailed as it now appears, pass into a law? He was sure no member could object to the fairness and propriety of the present motion.
As to the principle of the bill, he must say, it did not meet his approbation. If the House is convinced it is necessary to raise an Army of twenty thousand men, as the bill now proposes, they ought to say so at once, and let it be done; if they are not convinced that it is necessary, the law ought not to pass, the Army ought not to be raised till they are convinced it is necessary. The constitution made the Legislature the sole judge on this subject. The present bill says it is not necessary to raise this Army now, but perhaps it may be before Congress meets again, it therefore proposes to transfer the right of judging on this subject to the Executive; he thought it a very improper transfer of Legislative power. It has been said that all our troops are raised thus provisionally. If attention is paid to those laws, it will be seen that they did not pass till the Legislature was convinced that circumstances then required the troops to be raised; a clause is added, that if circumstances should alter so as to make the troops unnecessary, the President might forbear to raise, or discharge them; it gives him power to disband the Army, but not to raise one.
Mr. Rutledge said, as the principal objection against this bill seemed to arise from an idea that the militia would be found sufficient for every purpose of defence for this country, he thought gentlemen had better concur in letting the bill go to a second reading and be committed, and before it again came under consideration, the militia bill would probably have been determined upon. He was pleased to hear gentlemen say that the country must be defended, and if an effective militia could not be had, it must be done by a force of this kind. For his own part, from the proceedings already had upon the militia bill, he had not much to hope of its passing; and if not, gentlemen would certainly see the necessity of some additional standing force. Mr. R. could not conceive what objections could have been induced by the gentleman from Pennsylvania (as he was not in the House when he spoke) on a constitutional ground. Mr. R. adduced, as in point, the law enabling the President to call out troops in consequence of the Western insurrection, and that making provision for the effectual protection of the frontiers of the United States. Mr. R. then mentioned his expectation of despatches being received from our Ministers in Paris in the course of twelve hours (a particular mention of which has already been made) which might convince all of the propriety of going into this measure; for he believed it was the wish of all to defend the country with vigor and effect, and that they only differed as to the means of doing it.
Mr. McDowell was in favor of the motion for rejecting the bill, as it contained two principles which he thought inadmissible; the first, because it delegated Legislative power to the President; the other, as it respects volunteer corps. The first, he believed, would be unconstitutional, and the last would go to the destruction of the militia of the United States. If our situation be such as it had been figured to the committee by the gentleman from South Carolina, they ought to turn their attention to it, and create an army themselves, and not direct the President to do it if he shall judge proper. But if there be no real appearance of danger, but it is merely conjectural, then it is not necessary to act. Gentlemen have talked of members folding their arms and doing nothing for the defence of the United States. It must be recollected that we have gone considerable lengths in measures of defence. We have voted large sums for the frigates, for fortifications, for an additional regiment of artillery, and put in requisition 80,000 militia. If gentlemen can show that these measures, with our former establishment, are not sufficient for our present situation, he was ready to go further, but he was not willing to delegate any power lodged with that House to another branch of the Government.
It was well known, Mr. McD. said, that it had been the wish of the late President, that it was also the wish of the present President, of the Heads of Departments, and many members of Congress, to increase our Military Establishment, and to fix a standing army in this country. It has heretofore, however, been opposed with success, except in time of war. If we were to be involved in war, an army must be resorted to in aid of the militia; but, in the first instance, the militia might be depended upon as a sure and safe defence of this country. He was sure they would be equal to any invasion, and if we were to engage in a lengthy and formidable war, we must provide accordingly.
Mr. S. Smith hoped this motion would be withdrawn. At a time like the present, when the people of the United States are looking up to Congress in expectation of their taking effectual measures of defence against what they think not only a possible, but probable event, he wished nothing to appear like indifference to that object. He agreed with the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Harper) that if gentlemen did not like the bill, it might be amended; but to reject it altogether would have too much the appearance of indifference to the defence of the country. He did not know that this would be the best and most effectual mode of defence; he thought a better might be established, but he had not made up his mind upon it. He would, however, throw out an idea or two for the consideration of the committee. Last session, eighty thousand man were ordered to be held in requisition. He thought if the President was to draw out twenty thousand of these for three months, and when their time expired, to draw out twenty thousand more, and so on, till the whole had been out, it might afford a sufficient protection, and more speedily than any other, and it would have the good effect of making eighty thousand soldiers. In addition to this, there might be a provision authorizing the President to receive volunteer corps of cavalry from the Southern States, to be commanded by their own officers, to serve in a manner as shall be directed by law, the equipments for which to be furnished by the United States, which would be more effectual than a general law to raise three or four thousand cavalry.
Mr. Macon said, that some of the arguments used on this occasion were of an extraordinary nature. The motion was first said to be contrary to rule, and then unprecedented. It must certainly be allowed to be as proper to debate a bill on its first reading, as to refuse to refer a resolution. The fact was, that motions of this kind were made every session. It was said to be a surprise upon gentlemen; this could not be the case, if they had done their duty, as it had lain on their desks for some time. One reason, with him, for wishing the bill to be rejected in this stage was, that he was desirous of bringing the session to a close. It was wonderful that gentlemen should persist in bringing standing troops into the Southern States against their will. If members from that quarter were of opinion that their militia was sufficient defence, why will gentlemen be so over civil as to force troops upon them? It was a little extraordinary that gentlemen most in favor of this bill are the most opposed to the plan for newly organizing the militia. [Mr. Dana doubted the fact.] It was said that, because gentlemen are opposed to this bill, they are opposed to all measures of defence. The fact was otherwise; they wished only to avoid unnecessary expense. If they were to bring forward a proposition for raising one hundred thousand or two hundred thousand men, and it was opposed, they might say the same thing. He supposed every man wished to defend his country. He had only heard one reason in favor of committing the bill, and that was, that it was probable we might shortly hear from our Commissioners. If there was any certainty in that, it might be ground for delaying a decision.
Mr. Gallatin could not conceive why it should be insinuated that there was any thing unfair in making opposition to this bill on its first reading; for, if gentlemen were not ready to vote against the bill, they would, of course, vote for committing it, so that the opposition would have less chance of succeeding now than in the future stages of the bill. In the meanwhile, he wished to take every opportunity of endeavoring to destroy the bill. If a majority could be got against it on the first reading, so much the better, as it would prevent a loss of time in future discussion. He was not, however, afraid of discussion; he believed, the more it was discussed, the more the committee would be convinced of the impropriety of passing this bill. He did not believe, as had been supposed, that it was capable of amendment in any of its essential parts. It had been said, that a contingency might be mentioned; or a time fixed, at the expiration of which, the army might be raised. Such a bill would, however, be altogether different, as this bill vested the power of judging of the proper time with the President; nor could he see how it was susceptible of the amendments suggested by the gentleman from Maryland. If he thought it was, he would certainly agree to its being committed, as he perfectly concurred in the plan he mentioned; but such a system would be so different from the present, that it would be a much shorter and better course to reject this bill, and originate a new one.
He thought a bill of this kind was sufficient to alarm the House, and that it ought to be opposed in every stage, notwithstanding what was said about the danger of the country; indeed that danger was what strengthened his opposition to the bill; for, if our danger be, as it is represented, likely to come from Victor Hugues and his troops, from an insurrection of the negroes, from disaffected persons, from our enemy being at the door, it is the duty of Congress to raise an army themselves, and not to give the President the power of doing it; but if it is not believed that this representation of danger rests upon any specific ground, but that it is merely imaginary, then there is no necessity for giving the President the power, as he can call Congress together whenever he thinks proper.
If the danger of invasion was great, he should not hesitate to raise an army, without waiting until the event took place. He thought, therefore, the gentleman from South Carolina was not right to say that the opposition to this bill arose from a determined opposition to every thing like defensive measures. Mr. G. said it was true he did not apprehend all the dangers which that gentleman had spoken of; but, if they really did exist, he had a much greater reliance upon the militia of the country for defence than that gentleman seemed to have. He knew that though in some States they were not either well disciplined or well armed, yet they were organized, and had their officers, and the States being in possession of arms, they would be a much more effectual defence, and sooner brought together than any other force. He did not believe that giving the President the power to raise 20,000 men would be so effectual as the calling out of 20,000 militia, as the one could be raised immediately, and the raising of the other would be doubtful. Besides, in proportion as the danger exists, it would be better to call upon the people themselves to defend their country, than upon hired troops. If any danger was to be apprehended from the negroes, they would be best suppressed by the people in the States where they are. A militia is every where; whereas a standing army may be very distant from any attack which may take place. A standing army in Virginia, for instance, would do little good against insurgents in South Carolina; and if an insurrection of that kind was not immediately suppressed by the people, the mischief would be incalculable.
Mr. Rutledge thought it necessary, as the gentleman from Virginia had withdrawn his opposition to the commitment of the bill from what had fallen from him with respect to the probability of despatches being shortly received from our Ministers, to state upon what ground he had said this. [Mr. R. then mentioned the arrival of the Pomona at Baltimore.]
Mr. McDowell did not think the information given by the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Rutledge) ought to put off the decision of the question which had been under consideration.