Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 2 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Tuesday, March 27.

The bill from the Senate for an amicable settlement of limits with the State of Georgia, was passed with amendments.

Relations with France.

Mr. Baldwin hoped the House would now resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union.

After a few observations from Mr. Sewall against, and from Mr. Nicholas in favor of going into the business of the Union, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on that subject, Mr. Dent in the chair; when the President's Message of the 19th instant having been read,

Mr. Sprigg rose and observed, that every subject which came before the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union must necessarily be important; but he believed there never was any more so than that which was presented to them by the Message of the President which had been read. Separated as we are from Europe by an immense ocean, it were to be wished that we were equally separated from its political concerns, and that we should have to do with them no farther than what relates to commerce. This, unhappily, had not been the case, and there now existed painful differences between this country and the French Republic. The Message which had just been read was an evidence of this. In this situation of things, it appeared necessary that the House should declare whether this country was to have peace or war. This was a subject in which the best interests of the Union were deeply concerned, and he hoped the business would be met fully and fairly. The President had informed the House that the present state of things is changed from what it was when he prohibited the arming of merchant vessels, and that therefore he had withdrawn that prohibition. Whether the order formerly issued by the President for this purpose was in conformity to the spirit or letter of the law, was not of importance now to inquire; the effect had been beneficial, and in the same proportion as the prohibition had been beneficial would be the evils of withdrawing it. In order to ascertain the sense of the committee upon what measures may be proper to be taken in the present crisis, he should offer the following resolutions to their consideration:

Resolved, That it is the opinion of this committee, that under existing circumstances, it is not expedient for the United States to resort to war against the French Republic.

Resolved, &c., That provision ought to be made by law for restricting the arming of merchant vessels, except in cases in which the practice was heretofore permitted.

Resolved, &c., That adequate provision shall be made by law for the protection of our sea-coast, and for the internal defence of the country.

The first resolution being taken up,

Mr. Sitgreaves said that, for himself, he could not agree to the proposed resolution. He did not mean, by this disagreement, to express an opinion, that, at this moment, it was expedient to go to war with the French Republic; but he thought the formal declaration of the contrary sentiment was highly improper. The present is a period of menace and of danger, of injury and outrage, and whatever might be the expediency of the actual crisis, yet he had no hesitation to avow his belief that the time is not far distant when war must be resorted to, or the national honor and interest be abandoned. The conduct of France was calculated to excite or justify no other expectation; and under such circumstances, with such prospects, he could by no means consent to a formal declaration of non-resistance. Besides, it is contrary to the usual and ordinary course of Legislative proceeding, to pass mere negative resolutions. The power of declaring war being vested in the Congress, so long as the Congress shall forbear to declare war, it is a sufficient expression of their sentiment that such a declaration would be inexpedient: it is the only proper expression of such a sentiment; and it can be no more right to resolve that we will not resort to war, than it would be to pass an act to declare it would be inexpedient to make a law for the regulation of bankruptcy or any other municipal concern. However desirable, therefore, he admitted unanimity to be, at a time like the present, he found it impossible to agree to the resolution.

Mr. Baldwin did not agree with the gentleman last up; he thought the resolution proper and free from exception. We were, he said, twenty-three years ago, when we were about beginning the war with Great Britain, in a situation similar to the present; but we were then without many advantages which we now have. We were then without any common tie, except what arose from common interest. No means existed of holding conference together, but nature pointed out the course to be taken, and representatives from different parts of the country were travelling at the same moment to hold counsel together, and to speak their sentiments. The gentleman who has just taken his seat apprehends war must be the consequence of our present situation.

Mr. B. said this was the first time that the question of declaring war had ever presented itself, and upon which, he believed, there might be a difference of opinion as to the exercise of that power. He did not mean to say wantonly that our constitution is imperfect; but every society which has a written constitution must have recourse to it for direction. It would be improper therefore to inquire what agency the Legislature ought to have in the declaring of war; whether it is not proper that all the circumstances relative to such a state should be before them. He did not believe it was intended that this House should merely be the instrument to give the sound of war; the subject seemed to be placed wholly in the hands of the Legislature. This was the understanding of the country when there was no Government in existence, and he believed this was the meaning of the constitution. The country is now every where agitating this question of peace or war, and he trusted they would not be left to grope their way in the dark on this important question. The President had informed the House that all hopes of a negotiation were at an end. He was willing to take the information as it was given, without going into the Cabinet of the Executive, and to take measures accordingly. But when some persons declare that the present state of things is already a state of war; that the country is going on in it; that the die is cast, and that we have nothing to do but to go on with it as well as we can, if the House does not believe this to be a true position, this resolution ought to be agreed to, which went to say that the House does not consider the present a state of war, but a state of peace.

Mr. Otis said, if the gentleman who made the motion would consent to use the constitutional words on this occasion, he apprehended there would be no difference of opinion. He meant that instead of saying "to resort to war," to say "to declare war."

Mr. Sprigg said, the resolution which he had proposed had not been the work of a moment, and he did not feel disposed to make the alterations proposed.

Mr. Otis added, then he should propose to strike out the words "resort to," and insert "declare," as he was of opinion with the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. Sitgreaves,) that the only subjects fit for discussion were active measures, and that it was not regular to declare when they would not do a thing.

Mr. Pinckney was desirous of settling this motion by the previous question; but he was informed by the Chair that such a motion would not be in order in a Committee of the Whole.

Mr. Dayton (the Speaker) said, that he hoped his friend from Massachusetts would withdraw the motion he had just offered, in order to make room for one he had to offer, which would render the first resolution more general, more innocent, and yet equally or more efficacious, and would test the sincerity of the advocates of that resolution as to their professed anxiety for the maintenance of peace. Upon Mr. Otis withdrawing his motion, Mr. D. moved to strike out the words "against the French Republic" and declared that although he deemed the whole resolution unnecessary, and considered it as not naturally growing out of the President's Message, which did not call upon us to declare or make war, yet as it must be the intention of the mover, or of some other member to follow it up with like declarations in relation to all other nations with whom the United States had any intercourse, provided they acted consistently, he thought it better to make the resolution a general one, even if it should be afterwards negatived. He, for himself, was as ready to say that, under existing circumstances, it was as expedient for the United States to go to war with any other nation as with the French Republic. He saw no reason why that particular power should be singled out in the manner proposed; and as he was for cultivating peace, not with one only, but with all the nations of the world, he was willing so to declare his disposition, if any declaration was proper on the occasion. It was also to be observed, that it could not with propriety be objected against the amendment that there was no other nation with whom we were in danger of entering into hostility, for the tables of the House had been loaded with communications relative to the encroachments and unreasonable demands of another country, which had occasioned an apprehension that the United States would be driven to the necessity of a war in order to obtain possession of its own territory. If, therefore, gentlemen were anxious to cultivate harmony with the French only, then the resolution as first moved, was proper for their adoption; but if the preservation of peace with all was their real object, then he trusted that the amendment could not with propriety be rejected by those gentlemen who had introduced and advocated a proposition the utility of which, under any modification, he owned for himself, he could not discern, although he was willing to render it as unexceptionable as possible before it was decided upon.

Mr. Sprigg informed the gentleman from New Jersey that the reason why the French Republic was inserted in the resolution was because it was founded on the Message of the President, which related solely to the French Republic. For his part, he was not desirous of war with any power on earth.

Mr. Harper seconded the motion of the gentleman from New Jersey, because he thought it would be better in that shape. He had no particular objection to the resolution as proposed, only that he thought it a resolution about nothing; but as it might gratify the mover and some others, he should not object to it. He was not himself disposed for war, but for peace, while peace could be preserved. But he never said, and would not say, that war was the worst thing which could happen to this country; he thought submission to the aggressions of a foreign power infinitely worse. If gentlemen meant by agreeing to this resolution, to prevent the country from being put into a state of defence; if they meant by it to effect an entering wedge to submission, he trusted they would find themselves mistaken; for though he believed the true interest of the country lay in peace, yet he was not disposed to recede from any measures which he thought proper through fear of war. Or did gentlemen intend, by this question of peace or war, to enlist the popular prejudices in favor of peace, in order to prevent proper measures being taken for the defence of the country? If this was their view he should be the first to strip off the disguise. He trusted that this was not the case, as he saw it connected with another resolution which proposed the taking of measures for the defence of the country. The question at present, said Mr. H., is not a question of war, but of defence; and no two questions are more distinct. If gentlemen confound these two questions, and are determined to take no measures of defence lest they should lead to war, let them say so. He believed, however, the distinction was well understood by the American people.

Mr. Giles believed this the proper time to declare whether the country should remain in peace or go to war. He thought the resolution proper as it stood, because founded on the Message of the President, in which the French Republic is only named. There was a part of that Message, he said, which, in his opinion, amounted to a declaration of war. The President tells the House, "that the situation of things is materially changed since he issued his order to prevent the arming of merchant vessels." As far as he understood the situation of the United States at that time, it was a state of neutrality. If that state is changed, and the present is not a state of neutrality, he wished to know what is. He knew only of two states, a state of neutrality and a state of war; he knew of no mongrel state between them. Therefore, if the President of the United States, could declare war, we are now in war. Believing, however, that Congress had alone the power to declare war, he thought it time to declare what the state of the nation is. He did not know whether the object might not be answered by the resolution being general, as he was and always had been (notwithstanding insinuations to the contrary) against war with any nation upon the earth. He looked upon it as the greatest calamity which could befal any nation; and whatever may be the phantoms raised in perspective of national honor and glory in such a state, they will, in the end, all prove fallacious. He believed no nation ought to go to war except when attacked; and this kind of war he should be as ready to meet as any one. Mr. G. said, gentlemen were continually speaking of the degraded state of the nation, when their own measures had led to it. (Mr. Harper denied that he had ever said the nation was in a degraded state.) Mr. G. was not sure that he had said it, but he believed he had frequently heard it. He believed we were in a state which required the utmost vigor; but he thought every measure should be avoided which might involve the country in war. For if we were to go to war with the French at present, he knew not what ever could take place which could produce peace; it must be a war of extermination. Mr. G. did not know that the present question was very important; but believing it strictly conformable to the Message of the President, he should be in favor of it as it stood, and against the amendment.

Mr. Nicholas considered this amendment as defeating the resolution. Was there nothing, he asked, which called for a declaration of the kind proposed? Was it not clear to every one that the country was going fast into a state of war, and (in the words of Mr. Sitgreaves) was it not to be expected? Ought not the Legislature then, (who alone have the power of declaring war,) to determine the state of the country, and say whether they mean to go immediately to war or not? He thought the necessity of the resolution was sufficiently evident, by the motion which had been made to change the words from "resort to war," to declare war; in the one case the mischief was met, whilst the other meant nothing. And if gentlemen were ready to say we were not prepared to declare war, and at the same were not ready to say it is not expedient to resort to war, it proved that they thought war might be made without being declared. He asked whether gentlemen did not believe the Executive had taken measures which would lead to war? And that if he were at liberty to act upon a change of circumstances between this country and others, Congress were not brought into a situation in which they had no choice? Many discussions had heretofore taken place on the constitution, but he had never heard it doubted that Congress had the power over the progress of what led to war, as well as the power of declaring war; but if the President could take the measures which he had taken, with respect to arming merchant vessels, he, and not Congress, had the power of making war. He asked whether, when report went so far as to speak of an alliance, offensive and defensive, with a foreign country, it was not time to come to a declaration on the subject? Suppose such an alliance was formed, would it not be said that Congress are bound to carry it into effect? He knew it would, though he should resist the doctrine. Mr. N. said, he should be as unwilling to submit to any foreign country as the gentleman from South Carolina; but he could not, like that gentleman, say he was not afraid of war. I am, said he, afraid of it. This country affords me all the happiness I can wish or hope for, and I know war will be destructive to it. What was the difference between himself and that gentleman in this respect, he could not tell; it was to him surprising that any gentleman should be without fear as to the mischiefs of war. He was of opinion that the step taken by the President, with respect to merchant vessels, went to declare that we rested our cause on arms, which was not calculated to produce any good effect in our favor. He hoped the amendment would not be agreed to; if it was, he should vote against the resolution itself; and he did not think the gentleman from New Jersey, when he read the Message of the President, could think there was as much danger of a war with any other country as with the French Republic.

Mr. Brooks agreed with the gentleman who brought forward this resolution, so far as it declares we are not prepared to resort to war. He believed no nation or man who had common understanding could be fond of war. The people of this country have yet the recollection of the fatal effects of the late war. But there are two kinds of war, offensive and defensive. He wished gentlemen to distinguish between them; for though he was ready to declare against offensive war, and to submit to small injuries rather than make defensive war; yet he was not willing to say he should not be ready to defend his country against the attack of any foreign power whatever. He hoped he should be believed in this declaration, as he had formerly been employed in the defence of it; and if gentlemen meant that though foreign nations attempt to invade our territory, and to reduce us again to the colonies of a foreign power, they would not repel them, he could not join them in opinion. And though he should vote for the resolution as moved to be amended, he should feel himself at perfect liberty to defend his country in case of attack. He wondered the gentleman from Virginia should object to vote for the resolution, because it was general, as it included the French Republic as well as all other nations.

Mr. Rutledge trusted the sentiments which the gentleman from New York had expressed would govern the committee, and that all were ready to say, that though we value the blessings of peace, yet we are ready to resist insult and injury from whatever quarter they come. He hoped this would be the conduct of this country; and notwithstanding much had been heard about British parties and French parties, that all would unite in this determination. This being his opinion, he should vote for the amendment; and he hoped gentlemen would be satisfied with this declaration, and that no more would be heard of a party in the House in favor of war. Though he meant to vote for the resolution, he thought it unnecessary; but in these days of jealousy and suspicion, if he were not to vote for it, he should expect to be told he was in favor of war.

Gentlemen asked whether war is not approaching? And whether the Executive is not hastening it? To the latter question he would answer in the negative; with respect to the other, he could not answer, as it depended on France, and so versatile and uncertain is every thing in that country, that no dependence can be had upon it. Mr. R. said, at the last session, when we had no intercourse with France, he thought it necessary we should have it: that intercourse had proved ineffectual; and though he sincerely wished for peace, yet he saw something in the conduct of France which almost precluded hope.

The gentleman from Virginia had said, that this country had frequently been stated as in a degraded state. He did not recollect to have made the declaration, but this was his opinion. When our national rights had been violated; when our commerce had been depredated; when the vessels of belligerent powers, which had sought an asylum in our waters, had been plundered and burnt, he thought it necessary to go into measures of defence. He thought our frigates ought not to have remained at the wharves; that our extensive sea-coast on which is much wealth, should not be unprotected: he thought our seaports, the principal depots of our revenue, ought to have been fortified. He joined his friends in their attempts to have carried these measures, and, when they failed, he could not help thinking his country was in a degraded state and that she had lost the spirit which animated her in the year 1775. He hoped, however, that now, when France had gone to the lengths which she has gone to, that there would have been only one sentiment as to the propriety of the measures formerly proposed. But though he thought the nation in a degraded state, he was not in favor of war. He believed the citizens of this country were not for it. He believed the Government was averse to war; and that no part of it was more so than the Executive. War would be a loss to this country; and to no individual more than the Executive. He is no warrior, and, consequently, war has no laurels in store for him.

The gentleman from Virginia has spoken of war as having something dazzling in perspective; something which flattered pride and ambition. But did the gentleman suppose that a war with France could be flattering to pride or ambition? It could not; it would be a war of prudence; we must shut ourselves up, and act on the defensive, and say, "when reason returns, when an ebb shall take place in the affairs of France, when her flow of victories shall be over, she will do us justice." In the mean time, we must defend ourselves. Mr. R. repeated, that he did not believe any man in that House could wish for war; when he looked around him and saw gentlemen whose wounds are yet sore from former service; when he saw them voting for measures of defence, he could not believe, nor could any believe, that they wished to plunge the country in war. It would sooner be believed that gentlemen who made the charges were mistaken.

Mr. Sewall was opposed to the proposition as it now stood, and hoped it would be amended. What effect it would then have, he left those to judge who introduced it. Mr. S. said, he and those who, on all questions of defence, had voted with him, had been endeavoring for some time to go into some measures of that kind, and to determine whether these measures should be confined to our own limits or be extended to the ocean. These measures ought now to be decided upon, as this is a moment in which our commerce is depredated upon in a most unprecedented manner. We are now, said he, called upon to consider the hazards of our situation. [Mr. S. then quoted a part of the President's Message, as to the situation of our affairs in France, and as to the decree which was proposed respecting the taking of English goods on board of neutral vessels, and the carrying of which was declared to make neutral vessels good prizes.] This last regulation, Mr. S. said, was a direct violation of the law of nations, and amounted to a declaration of war on the part of France against this country. But, instead of making any defence, gentlemen call upon the committee to declare we are not disposed to resort to war against the French Republic; so that, after we have been injured and abused, and denied the common rights of humanity, we are not to complain, but make a declaration that we will not go to war. Was then, he asked, a question of war a card of politeness? Did a nation ever make a declaration that it was not at war? It could not say so, except it were in so degraded a state that it had no rights capable of injury. To say we are not at war was to say no more than it is light when the sun shines; but to call upon the committee to say so at this time, was to degrade the nation from its independence, and below its character. The present state of things, Mr. S. said, ought to be considered as a state of war, not declared by us, but against us, by the French Republic; and if we want spirit to defend ourselves, let us not say so. We may refrain from acting, but let us not say we receive injuries with thankfulness. But this proposition goes still further. In a moment of public danger, it goes to divide and separate this House from the President of the United States. The gentleman from Virginia had well explained this resolution, when he said, it was intended to interrupt the views of the President of the United States. That gentleman considered the Message of the President as a declaration of war, and this resolution was to be in contradiction to it. If this was the sense in which it was to be understood, it was false in point of fact; for the President had neither declared war nor called upon Congress to declare war; no such sentiment could be found in the Message. To agree to the proposition as it stands, would be to give countenance to the assertion of the French Government, that we are a people divided from our Government; but, taking it with the amendment, he looked upon it as a harmless thing. Mr. S. concluded, by saying, that he considered the conduct of France in the light of war. How far we would resent it, was the question; whether offensively or defensively. He was in favor of defensive measures, as we are not equal to offensive measures, (he wished to God we were.) It was our weakness, and the division which had appeared in our councils, that had invited these attacks. He trusted they should now unite and repel them.

Mr. Gallatin said, before the speech of the gentleman who had just sat down, he could not discover what was the meaning of the amendment, to strike out the words "against the French Republic," as, when the House were in a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union for considering the late Message of the President, the resolution was perfectly consonant. Besides, we have no danger to apprehend from any other power, since our dispute is settled with Spain. The intention of the amendment was evidently to render the resolution as unmeaning as possible.

Every gentleman who had spoken on this subject, had agreed that war is not a desirable object for the United States. He gave them credit for the assertion. But this was not the question; but whether we are prepared to resort to war under existing circumstances. It is a question of fact. Mr. G. took notice of the different modes which had been attempted to defeat the resolution; but, though the present amendment were agreed to, he should still vote in favor of the resolution; for it would be effectual, in some degree, as it could only apply to the French nation, though it was not so expressed.

Mr. G. believed the United States had arrived at a crisis at which a stand ought to be made, in which it was necessary for Congress to say whether they will resort to war or preserve peace. He was led to this conclusion from a review of the conduct of France, and of the late Message of the President.

In respect to France, we know, that some time ago, she declared our treaty with her to be at an end; though not in words, the result was to deprive us of the advantages derived from that treaty. In the next place, she dismissed our Minister Plenipotentiary. Under these circumstances, the President called the extraordinary session of Congress, and when met together, after having related the reasons which induced this call, he concluded with saying, "that it was his sincere desire to preserve peace and friendship with all nations, and believing that neither the honor nor the interest of the United States absolutely forbade the repetition of advances for securing these desirable objects, he should not fail to promote and accelerate an accommodation," &c. The President accordingly sent Envoys to France, and the result of the embassy was given to Congress in the last Message, which was now under consideration, in which he says, "the object of the mission cannot be accomplished on terms compatible with the safety, honor, or the essential interests of the nation." The people of the United States are therefore informed, that negotiations are at an end, and that we cannot obtain redress for wrongs, but may expect a continuation of captures, in consequence of the decree which it was supposed was passed, for seizing all neutral vessels with British property, manufactures, or produce, on board. Mr. G. said, he differed in opinion from the gentleman last up, that this was a declaration of war. He allowed it would be justifiable ground of war for this country, and that, on this account, it was necessary to agree to, or reject the present proposition, in order to determine the ground intended to be taken. For, though there may be justifiable cause for war, if it is not our interest to go to war, the resolution will be agreed to.

There was another reason why this resolution ought to be now decided, which arose from the conduct of our Executive. He has declared that a change of circumstances has taken place which has occasioned him to withdraw his order forbidding merchant vessels to arm; which amounts to this, that he now permits vessels of the United States to use means of defence against any attack which may be made upon them. Mr. G. thought it necessary, therefore, to declare, whether we were to pursue measures of war or peace. Before measures are taken which will lead to war, the House ought to decide whether it is their intention at present to go to war.

The gentleman from New York had spoken of the difference between offensive and defensive war. This related to the motives, more than to the manner, of carrying on war; because when war is once entered into, though it may be at first defensive, it cannot remain so. It would be ridiculous, for instance, to say, that our frigates should prevent our vessels from being taken; but that they should not take French privateers.

But it was said, if the resolution was agreed to, it would confirm the opinion which had been held that Congress and the Executive were divided in opinion. The gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Sewall) told the House that the question was war or peace; that the conduct of France was a declaration of war, yet as the President had not called upon Congress to go to war, they ought not to declare that it is not expedient to resort to war. But if it be assumed as a principle, which that gentleman asserts, that the conduct of the French is a declaration of war, and the President has told us we are in war, the resolution could not be improper. Or if his other principle be assumed, that the information of the President does not amount to war, then an agreement to the resolution would show that Congress concurred with him in opinion, that it is not proper at present to resort to war. So that in both cases, the resolution is proper.

Mr. G. said he was precluded by the amendment from going into the merits of the resolution. His arguments went to show the propriety of agreeing to it in one way or other. Nor did he mean to take any notice of what had been said about a division of opinion in our councils having invited the insults and injuries which France had committed against this country. If he were to do this, he must have recourse to recrimination, which he did not wish. He wished rather to take a serious view of our present situation, and either meet it by war, or by measures which shall avoid war. On both sides are difficulties; but the difficulties and inconveniences of both ought to be weighed, and the least taken; and, having determined, measures ought to be pursued accordingly. He did not wish to adopt the resolution as proposed to be amended, and then go on and act directly contrary to it. He thought it best to meet the resolution at once, and say whether we are determined on war or peace. If we go to war, we must expect to meet all the expense and evils of such a state; and if we remain at peace, we must, in a certain degree, submit. He meant to say, that we must submit to have a number of our vessels taken. But whether we shall have more taken in adopting one course than the other, he left to gentlemen to determine. He thought the submission he had mentioned, very different from the submission which had been spoken of by the gentleman from South Carolina, and others.

Mr. G. concluded, by observing, that the conduct of France must tend to destroy that influence which gentlemen had so often complained of as existing in this country. Indeed, he was convinced that at the commencement of her revolution there was a great enthusiasm amongst our citizens in favor of her cause, which naturally arose from their having been engaged in a similar contest; but he believed these feelings had been greatly diminished by her late conduct towards this country. He thought, therefore, that whether we engaged in war, or remained in a state of peace, much need not be apprehended from the influence of France in our councils. The business had come to a mere matter of calculation, as to what course will be best to be taken for the interest and happiness of the country. If he could separate defensive from offensive war at sea, he should be in favor of it; but he could not make the distinction, and therefore he should be in favor of pursuing measures of peace.

Several persons rose, but, being about three o'clock, a motion was made for the committee to rise, which was negatived—46 to 44.

Mr. Dana did not conceive that the construction of language given by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, was to be taken as true, without examination. He trusted not. The gentleman stated the question to be peace or war; he could not conceive it to be such. It was unfortunate that, in this important crisis, the House should be engaged, like a set of rhetoricians, in disputing the meaning of words. Indeed, the decision on the present motion, he thought wholly unimportant.

The gentleman last up had said there was no distinction between offensive and defensive war, and that he was, therefore, opposed to either. Mr. D. thought the distinction clear; offensive war, is when an attack is made upon another; and defensive, when a nation has recourse to war, merely for self-defence. But there was another state of things which could not have the name of war, which was to have recourse to measures of defence; to be prepared in cases of attack. It was clear, by the law of nations, that to prepare for defence, was not to commit hostility. To say that to take measure of defence is hostility, was a new definition, and it was the mighty discovery of the gentleman from Pennsylvania.

Did gentlemen mean that if we should make use of force against lawless violence, it is war? If not, what did all that had been said amount to? He thought the proposition perfectly nugatory.

But the gentleman said, that his friend from Massachusetts had said, that France had already declared war against us, and that, therefore, we must resort to war. For his part, he did not know what gentlemen meant by resorting to war. If they had adopted terms which had any legal meaning, he could have understood them, but the present might mean every thing, or nothing. If it meant any thing, it meant taking active measures against France in the first instance. He was not only ready to say he would not consent to do this with respect to France, but with respect to every other nation.

The gentleman from Pennsylvania, and two gentlemen from Virginia, had said that the Message of the President amounted to a declaration that we were now in war. This idea he thought was stated very incorrectly. They did not seem to have understood the meaning of the language of the President. The state of things which existed at the time orders were issued to prevent the arming of merchant vessels was essentially different from the present; then there was an evident disposition in the owners of vessels to cruise against a foreign belligerent nation, and the order was issued to prevent attack and plunder; but the desire to arm at present is for the purpose of defence merely, and not to cruise or plunder. There is a law forbidding vessels to arm for the purpose of cruising; but none forbidding merchants to arm in their own defence. This was the fair construction, he believed, of the meaning of the President.

Mr. Otis observed, that the opposers of this amendment could assign no better reason for declaring a desire to keep peace with the French Republic, to the exclusion of other nations, than their own construction of the President's last Message, which they considered as directed against that Republic only; but the House having resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, the resolution on the table had no greater relation to that Message than to any former Speech or Message, or to the affairs of the Union at large. If it was intended as an answer to the Message, it should be moved in that form; but unless it was in a particular manner connected with it, the public could not connect it more naturally with this Message, than the Speech delivered at the opening of the session. The House had been heretofore informed, that France was not the only country with which a rupture was to be apprehended. Spain might be considered, until lately, as having actually invaded our territory; and though the presumption at present was, that the causes of contention with that country were removed, yet they were not officially informed of that fact, and without such information it was not less proper to express their desire of maintaining peace with Spain than with other countries. Again, gentlemen had often intimated that a war with France would involve us in a war with the nations in alliance with her. It was therefore inexpedient to show a contempt or indifference for them, by leaving them out of our pacific manifesto.

He considered the Message in a different view from many gentlemen. But admitting, for the sake of argument, that the President had declared an opinion upon the facts stated by him, that war was inevitable; gentlemen must consider the fact to be true; if they doubted it, they ought to demand information. How would this resolution then stand? In reply to assurances that negotiation had failed; that our Commissioners were treated with neglect and contempt; that letters of marque and reprisal were issued against our vessels; and that the most hostile appearances were discernible on the part of France; it was proposed to declare, that with them, and them only, it was inexpedient to resort to war. Such a proposal would hardly be found in the annals of the most humble and degraded nation.

He disapproved of the resolution, though he should vote for the amendment, and would not, on the present occasion, follow gentlemen who had gone at large into the merits of the resolution. Upon the extent of the defensive measures proposed by gentlemen, his feelings inclined him to enlarge; but this discussion would be more pertinent upon some other question. He would merely hint, that actual invasion might not be the worst calamity to this country. He could conceive of a partial invasion of our territory that would be much less injurious, and attended with much less loss than the total ruin of our commerce.

The call for the committee to rise being repeated,

Mr. N. Smith hoped gentlemen would be satisfied to take the question, which he thought very unimportant. The time consumed in discussing it was, however, important, as other concerns called for attention. He knew there were gentlemen who chose rather to address the people of the United States than to legislate. He thought it better to legislate, than to preach to the people. He looked upon the present resolution as a text from which it was intended to alarm the people with respect to war, and he wished not to indulge gentlemen in their design. He wished the question to be taken for another reason. It was suggested by the gentleman from Virginia, that the Message of the President was considered by the people as a declaration of war, and that reports were in circulation, that a treaty, offensive and defensive, was concluded with Great Britain. After this, he would call the attention of the committee to the resolution, which was, in effect, to say, we must interfere, or war will be brought upon the country. Did not this go to sanction a report which was as false and malignant as even jacobinism could invent? It did; and he hoped, they would not so far sanction the report, as to let the motion lie before them undecided.

Mr. Dayton hoped the committee would rise. The gentleman last up began with saying the proposition was of no importance; but, before he sat down, showed that he thought differently. Mr. D. thought it was of importance that the committee should come to a right decision upon it, and say whether it ought to be agreed to in general terms, or rejected.

Mr. N. Smith explained.

Mr. J. Williams thought the question trifling, and hoped a decision would be had upon it.

Mr. Giles said, the question was a question of peace or war, and yet gentlemen call it trifling. He did not mean to alarm the people of the United States, but he wished them to understand their situation. He acknowledged he was himself much alarmed. Gentlemen were willing to engage in defensive, but not in offensive war; but when war was once begun it would not be in the power of the United States to keep it within the character of defensive war. Indeed the gentleman from Massachusetts, when he spoke of defensive war, confessed our inability for offensive war, and uttered a prayer to the Supreme Being that we were able to engage offensively; and where, he asked, with such sentiments, is the difference between offensive and defensive war? He could see none; he deprecated war of every kind.

Mr. J. Williams hoped the question would be taken. As he before stated, he thought it trifling, and the debate upon it only calculated to alarm the people, which seemed to be the object of gentlemen. If the question was not taken before they adjourned, much debate would be had, and much time spent to very little purpose. He thought it very extraordinary, as no one was found to bring forward a resolution to declare war, that a gentleman would introduce a resolution of its being inexpedient so to do. He was persuaded that this negative mode of proceeding was calculated to draw on a debate, to set the people against the Executive. Time, he said, was precious; they had sat near five months and done but little, much remained to be done, and as all had declared their aversion to a war, the people should be undeceived. He had himself seen gentlemen write upon the late Message of the President, for the purpose of sending to their constituents, "A war message against France."

Mr. Macon wished the gentleman would name who had thus written.

A call of order took place: and a motion was made for the committee to rise, and carried.