Thursday, April 10.
Navy Appropriations.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the bill making appropriations for the support of the Navy of the United States, during the year one thousand eight hundred and six.
The bill was read by sections.
The Chairman having read that part of the bill which makes an appropriation “for repair of vessels, store rent, pay of armorers, freight, and other contingent expenses,”[37]
Mr. J. Randolph moved to fill the blank with $411,950.
Mr. D. R. Williams moved to strike out the words “and other contingent expenses.” He said he made this motion with a view of ascertaining for what objects these contingent expenses were intended to provide. He would ask the Chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means for information on this point. He believed the sum contemplated to be appropriated unnecessarily large.
Mr. J. Randolph said the gentleman had asked for information which it was not in his power to give. He was as much in the dark as the gentleman as to the items of contingent expenditure; and he should not have moved to fill this blank with so large a sum, but from the conviction that whether they provided the money or not, it would be spent, and an additional appropriation be made the next session. Mr. R. said he viewed an appropriation bill, under present circumstances, a mere matter of form; he believed also all the items of appropriation might as well be lumped together, and it might be declared that a million of dollars were appropriated. Had he been governed by his own opinion, instead of the forms which had been observed, he would have been in favor of drafting the bill in this way, for this reason: If the expenditures of the Navy exceeded this sum by $600,000 there was no doubt the next Congress would make good the deficiency without any inquiry. He believed this, as what had taken place once might take place again.
Mr. R. said he had addressed a note to the head of the department, stating that on such a day the Committee of Ways and Means wished the appropriation bill to be taken up, and expressing a desire that he would give them information of the items of contingent expenditure, as they consider the sum required unnecessarily large. He had received an answer to this effect—the Secretary said he did not think the sum too large, without entering into any explanation. Mr. R. added, gentlemen may fill the blank as they please; it will be no check on the expenditure.
The Committee divided on agreeing to the sum named by Mr. Randolph—ayes 46, noes 37.
Mr. D. R. Williams moved to strike out “and other contingent expenses.” He had before said that he had been impelled to make this motion from a sense of duty. This impression had been strengthened by the statement of the Chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means. He could not think it proper to make an appropriation to so large an amount, when the proper organ of the House had without success required information from the head of the department, from whom he had only received a mere opinion. He hoped the committee would agree to strike out this general appropriation, that all the items of contingent expenditure might be stated to the House, and thereby form some check on the expenditure.
Mr. Leib said he perceived in another part of the bill other mention made of contingent expenses. He would be glad to know what they were. The House ought to know the various items, or otherwise make a general provision for contingent expenses, and leave it to the head of the department to apply the money as he pleases.
Mr. Dana said the first contingent appropriation was for the navy, the second for the marine corps. If striking out the proposed words would enable the committee to obtain the information sought, he should vote for the motion. He had no objection to voting liberally for a navy; but he thought the Legislature ought to be well informed, as they would otherwise scarcely discharge their duty to their constituents.
The motion of Mr. Williams, to strike out “and other contingent expenses,” was disagreed to—ayes 32.
Mr. J. Randolph moved to strike out that part of the bill making an appropriation “for completing the marine barracks at the city of Washington.” Mr. R. said this object appeared to require a standing appropriation; and, though the building was finite, the appropriation appeared to be infinite.
Motion agreed to—ayes 66.
The committee rose and reported the bill. The House having taken the report of the committee into consideration,
Mr. D. R. Williams, called for the reading of the document, stating the annual expenditures on the Navy, by which it appeared that the expenditures had been as follows:
| For 1798 | $ 570,314 | 24 |
| 1799 | 2,848,187 | 26 |
| 1800 | 3,385,340 | 48 |
| 1801 | 2,117,420 | 74 |
| 1802 | 946,213 | 24 |
| 1803 | 1,107,925 | 32 |
| 1804 | 1,246,502 | 74 |
| 1805 | 1,409,949 | 67 |
| Total | 13,631,853 | 00 |
Mr. D. R. W. renewed his motion to strike out “and other contingent expenses.” He thought the House ought, under existing circumstances, to show a disposition to economize, and to curtail the expenses of the Navy. What is the necessity for this expenditure? Why, the Constitution is in the mud, and the President[38] on her beam ends! Thirteen millions and a half have been already expended, and it is now proposed to add $411,000 for contingent expenses. In making this motion I have no object but to confine the Navy Department to proper expenses; but let them first state what they are.
The Speaker observed that this motion could not be received until the amendments of the committee had been acted upon.
Mr. D. R. Williams moved to strike out “for ordnance $50,000,”[39] He did not perceive the use of this appropriation. No gentlemen accustomed to travel, but must have seen the unprotected state of the ordnance; look at the Turk’s house, you will there see it lying exposed. To his knowledge it was in many other instances in the same situation.
This motion was lost—ayes 33.
The amendment of the committee to fill the blank with “$50,000,” was agreed to, without a division.
Mr. Eppes offered a proviso declaring that a larger sum than $30,000 shall not be expended on the repairs of any one frigate.
Mr. J. Randolph.—I shall vote against this motion on the same principle that I voted to fill the blank relative to contingent expenses, with $411,000. If we cannot restrain the expenditures of the Navy Department within the sum annually fixed, after giving as much as is asked for, is it not the idlest thing to attempt to restrain them by giving less? The principle on which I voted for filling that blank was this: To give to the Navy Department what it asks, that if, at the end of the year, more shall be expended, the blame may fall on the shoulders of the Secretary, and not on us. The sum appropriated for contingent expenses amounts to $411,000; this is not the half, but it is more than a third of the whole sum appropriated, and it may be expended on repairs or any other item of contingent expenditure. It is enormous. But withhold the appropriation, and where are you? The expense may be incurred, and the Government called on to make good the deficiency; and there the business will end.
With regard to the sum requisite for the repair of a frigate, her situation between this and the next year cannot be foreseen. The Secretary may have estimated $30,000 as sufficient to repair any one frigate as they now stand; but they may be placed in such a condition as to require a much larger sum. But I am against the amendment, said Mr. R., not only for these, but for other reasons. I will never consent to legislate in such a way as to make it appear that we did legislate intelligently, when in fact we do not. If I can be satisfied that $30,000 will be sufficient for the repair of a frigate, I may be induced to vote for it. But even this would be unnecessary. For, after all, the business must be confided to the Head of the Department; and he will be a better judge of the sum required for the repair of a vessel than we are. If he cannot be trusted, we ought, in my opinion, either to refuse the appropriation altogether, or take a very different step from that now proposed. For these reasons I am unwilling to appear to act understandingly on a subject which I know nothing about.
Mr. Eppes.—When I made this motion, it was under the impression that what is correct in private, is also correct in public conduct. We know that, when a vessel owned by a merchant gets in a certain state, it is more advisable to sell than to repair her. I do not know whether I have fixed the proper sum. All I wish to try is, whether the United States are disposed to repair at all events their frigates, whatever their state may be, or limit the sum, after expending which they shall be abandoned. I confess, however, that I am not anxious on this point. I merely wish to try the sense of the House.
On agreeing to Mr. E.’s motion, the House divided—ayes 38, noes 57.
Mr. D. R. Williams.—The curtailing Navy expenses may be unpopular, but I conceive it to be right. For that purpose I will renew the motion I offered in committee. I am of opinion that all the expenditures of this department should pass in review before the House. When I first came to Washington, I went to the navy yard. I there saw an elegant building going on. I inquired under what appropriation this was authorized, and was answered, under the appropriation for contingent expenses. I remarked other expenditures, and received the same information. These expenditures may be all proper; but I think that every gentleman on this floor ought to be enabled to tell his constituents how the public money is expended. Talk to them of contingencies, and they will understand as little of the term as of land in the moon. Mr. W. concluded by moving to strike out “and other contingent expenses,” and calling the yeas and nays.
Mr. Smilie said that no gentleman would censure him for attachment to the Navy. He never had been, nor was he now attached to a Navy. But the situation in which they were placed was well known. If there was time, he should be glad to have every item of expenditure produced by the proper officer, that they might know how to act. He was fully aware that, in the Navy Department, it was more difficult to anticipate the expenses than in any other. Though, therefore, he was no friend to a Navy, as it had not been thought proper to abandon the establishment, he considered it right to make such grants as were necessary for its support. If it was early in the session, or if he thought it possible to get the information, he should vote for calling for it. But as they were reduced to the necessity of saying at once whether they would, or would not support the Navy, he should be in favor of making this grant.
The yeas and nays having been taken on Mr. D. R. Williams’s motion, were—yeas 25, nays 86.
Mr. D. R. Williams moved to recommit the bill to a Committee of the Whole, with the view of obtaining information from the Secretary of the Navy before it was definitively acted on.
The motion was disagreed to—ayes 41, noes 56; when the bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading without a division.
The motion to read the bill a third time on Saturday was carried—ayes 55, when the following motion, made by Mr. D. R. Williams, was agreed to without a division:
Resolved, That the Secretary of the Navy be directed to lay before this House an estimate of the respective sums necessary to be appropriated for repair of vessels, store rent, pay of armorers, freight, and contingent expenses of the Navy for the year 1806.