TESTIMONY OF DIAL DUWAYNE RYDER RESUMED
The testimony of Dial Duwayne Ryder was taken at 12:45 p.m., on April 1, 1964, at the Irving Sports Shop, 221 East Irving Boulevard, Irving, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. Liebeler. This is the continued deposition of Dial Duwayne Ryder. The witness having been previously sworn, we will continue with the examination.
First of all, Mr. Ryder, I want to show you a picture that has been marked Exhibit No. 1, on Mr. Greener's deposition. I ask you if that is a picture of the repair tag that you found here in the shop?
Mr. Ryder. Yes; that is the one right there.
Mr. Liebeler. It has the name Oswald on it and the words drill and tap $4.50; bore sight, $1.50; total $6.
Mr. Ryder. That is the one we was thinking about the other day. Did it have the $6 tag or the $4.50 tag, because we sometimes charge for the boresight and sometimes don't, depending on the type work we do or what we actually do on the thing.
Mr. Liebeler. Do you remember the exact details under which you found the tag in the shop?
Mr. Ryder. Well, we talked about this thing on Saturday morning and like I said before, like you saw the workbench up there today, that it is cluttered up, and on Saturday evening I was cleaning it off and found the tag laying back on the workbench.
Mr. Liebeler. The Saturday following the assassination?
Mr. Ryder. Yes.
Mr. Liebeler. You found the tag there yourself?
Mr. Ryder. Yes.
Mr. Liebeler. Had the FBI been out here prior to that time?
Mr. Ryder. No.
Mr. Liebeler. They had not?
Mr. Ryder. No, sir.
Mr. Liebeler. When did the FBI first come out?
Mr. Ryder. On Monday.
Mr. Liebeler. On Monday?
Mr. Ryder. Yes; that was on Monday, of the funeral of the late President.
Mr. Liebeler. That would have been November 25, 1963, when the FBI came out on Monday and you gave them the tag or showed them this tag; is that right?
Mr. Ryder. He told us to hold onto it, and then they later came by and got the tag.
Mr. Liebeler. Did you ever talk to the newspaper reporter about this?
Mr. Ryder. There were several out here after the FBI had been out, and we told them the same thing that we told the FBI.
Mr. Liebeler. But you didn't talk to any newspaper reporter before the FBI came out here?
Mr. Ryder. No.
Mr. Liebeler. You are quite sure about that?
Mr. Ryder. I am positive about that.
Mr. Liebeler. It was your impression at the time the FBI came that they were making a routine check of all guns?
Mr. Ryder. That is my opinion. That is the idea I had.
Mr. Liebeler. You don't know of any special reason why they came to this particular gun shop?
Mr. Ryder. No; he didn't give any specific reason. He was just checking us out. Like I say, probably just routine like he checked all others.
Mr. Liebeler. Now I show you two pictures that have been marked Exhibits Nos. 3 and 4 on Mr. Greener's deposition. They are pictures of a rifle, and I ask you if you have ever seen a rifle like that or ever worked on one here in your shop?
Mr. Ryder. I have seen them but never have worked on one of them.
Mr. Liebeler. Had you seen them before the assassination?
Mr. Ryder. This is what I was talking about the other day. This is not as plain a picture as Mr. Horton had. Evidently that is a reprint, but there are two screws, one here and one here, where on the tag I have charged for three holes.
Mr. Liebeler. You are indicating the screws on Exhibit No. 3, that hold the scope mount to the rifle; is that correct?
Mr. Ryder. Mr. Horton, the FBI man, on the rifle he had it was real plain and you could see these two screws, and this was a hole, but there wasn't any screws. There was just two screws in the mount.
Mr. Liebeler. The mount had three holes but only two screws?
Mr. Ryder. That is apparently in the picture you have here, and this is what I was referring to as a cheap mount. This looked to me like even in this picture it was real thin gage metal. I can show you something like that, that we use on a .22 scope, and that is all we use.
Mr. Liebeler. But in your opinion it is too light a mount?
Mr. Ryder. Yes; it is too easy to get jarred off on a high-powered rifle.
Mr. Liebeler. That would throw the accuracy of the rifle off, wouldn't it?
Mr. Ryder. Yes.
Mr. Liebeler. That is all I have, Mr. Ryder. I just wanted you to look at the pictures, and I thank you very much.
Mr. Ryder. I don't know which one it was, but it looked—it looks like a copy of the one the FBI man had, except it's been copied over and over. This is not as plain as the one he had.
Mr. Liebeler. Let me ask you if the FBI or anybody that ever talked to you ever showed you any pictures of a man and asked you if you could identify that man as Oswald?
Mr. Ryder. He showed me a picture of Oswald, but like I told him, I couldn't say definitely if I knew him or not.
Mr. Liebeler. Let me show you some other pictures that we have. The first five pictures have previously been marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 451 and 453 through 456, and I will ask you if you can recognize the man or men described in these pictures. Have you ever seen them anywhere, as far as you can recall? And second, if you have ever seen him in the shop?
Mr. Ryder. No; they don't look like—too familiar to me.
Mr. Liebeler. Do they appear to be pictures of the same man to you, or a different man?
Mr. Ryder. They look actually to me like they are different men. These two look real close.
Mr. Liebeler. Referring to Commission Exhibits Nos. 456 and 451?
Mr. Ryder. Yes; they look real similar in their hairline. Actually, I guess this looks about the same, too.
Mr. Liebeler. Referring to Commission Exhibit No. 455. But the other two pictures look a little different?
Mr. Ryder. Yes.
Mr. Liebeler. The other two being Commission Exhibits Nos. 453 and 454? Now I show you a picture that has been marked previously as Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-A. I ask you to look at all the individuals in that picture and tell me if you recognize any of them.
There are two individuals that have been marked by a green mark, but don't confine your attention to them.
Mr. Ryder. This one I know is Oswald, as the pictures in the paper, but as far as seeing the guy personally, I don't think I ever have. I could have, but being in business here, it would be hard to say. Any of the others, I don't believe I have seen any of the others, but this one, like I say, just by picture——
Mr. Liebeler. You are referring to the man that has been marked with an "X"?
Mr. Ryder. Right.
Mr. Liebeler. Or with two lines as opposed to one straight line on Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-A. I now will show you Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B, and ask you if you recognize anybody in that picture? There is a man marked with a green mark in the left-hand corner of the picture.
Mr. Ryder. This would be the only one. Like I say, seeing him on television and in the paper, that is as far as I could go.
Mr. Liebeler. The man marked with the green line, is that right?
Mr. Ryder. Yes.
Mr. Liebeler. Here is another picture which has been marked Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-C. Do you recognize him?
Mr. Ryder. This is the same picture that the FBI had of Oswald, the same picture.
Mr. Liebeler. You don't remember seeing this man in the shop?
Mr. Ryder. Like I say, as many people as we have in here, it would be hard to distinguish one from another unless they come in quite frequently and you begin to know them. Then you would know what he looks like and kind of put a name with a face. There are several people that come in here that have been coming in for several years, but I can't make this old ticker work up there as to their names.
Mr. Liebeler. So you aren't able to say whether this man was in the shop?
Mr. Ryder. He may have or may not have been. I couldn't say for sure.
Mr. Liebeler. All right, thank you, Mr. Ryder. We appreciate your cooperation The Commission wants to thank you very much for the cooperation that you have given us.
Mr. Ryder. Yes.