The Moderatour answered—Grants to your Grace; but so purpose we to proceed that our moderation shall so appeare as your Grace shall consent als willinglie as we.
The Moderatour desired Mr Andro Ramsay, Mr Alexʳ Henrysone, and Lord Lowdoun to declair their judgments.
Mr Andro Ramsay said—I thinke there is no man but he will applause to your Grace in general; but as for the particulars, they who are judges can cognosce better, and upon their relation the judgment of the Assembly may rest; for, as I said yesterday, there are four causes of their removing or deprivation from their Kirks; either becaus they have not consented to the Acts of the Assembly, or becaus they have deserted their flockes, or for corruption of doctrine, or for vitiousnes of life. The two last his Grace pleads not, but only for the first two, which I remitt to the judgment of the Assembly and thinkes it should be handlit with moderation to his Graces satisfaction.
Mr Alexʳ Hendersone said—Truelie for my selfe I have no spleen against any of these Ministers, and I believe they have none at me. I have beine more blamed this tyme bygone, for that that is called moderation, than for any great vehemencie against any persone; but for that the Commissioners Grace hes beine saying, I thinke verilie there will be many that will be willing to submitt themselves to the judgment and determination of the Assembly. But I should wishe that they would confesse some errours in their judgment before they submitt themselves. Alwayes I thinke it is but a dabling with untempered mortar. These that are not of the judgement of our Kirk, they will be pleased to professe themselves to be such, and then let them be conferred with and convinced. As for others againe whose judgment has gone after their affection and their affection after the world, these hes need of repentance; but I thinke they should first acknowledge that there is something done amisse, and that they have beine guiltie of some errours; and I thinke by your confession they doe great honour to God, and establishe a more perfect peace betwixt them and their brethren.
Lord Lowdoun said—So many of them as have not beine present where they were processed upon, and representation of their case to this Assembly by supplication, deserves to have their proces considered of here, or some appoynted by the whole Assembly to heare them.
Mr Alexʳ said—I thinke, verilie, there should be a difference put betweene those who have not followed their practise according to the tymes then, but also hes troubled others beside them, yea, and hes run into England to doe all the ill they could there, and betwixt these who in modestie and simplicitie, so to speake, hes followed their oune judgment, thinking it to be right.
The Commissioner said—I shall only differ from Mr Alexander Hendersones opinion in this—that I believe that none of the ministers that went to England, went neither out of wantonnes, nor of a purpose of oary misinformation, but meirlie out of necessitie, for not having stockes of money. I thinke were [it] not the Kings bountie they should have starved, and with what peace and securitie could they live here during the troubles of this countrie? so it was not only but fitting, but necessar that they should goe.
Mr Alexʳ Hendersone said—Divers of them went to England with full purses, and others of them stayed at home in securitie; so that it is evident neither povertie nor fear made them goe out of the Kingdome.
Earle of Rothes said—I thinke, according to the order of this Kirke, which we cannot goe by—for there are cleare Acts for it—ye must take the reportes of these that have beine on the former committies, and then it shall be fitt to cognosce of particulars according to the degries of the faults and the measure of their repentance; and I assert so much to the Commissioners Grace, that if these men be so free as his Grace declaires, I trow there hath beine so much moderation shawen in the Act of the deposition, that they were sought with all earnestnes and kindnes to acknowledge their mother Kirk; and I believe that some charitable disposition will remain still. But can it be thought enough that a man shall come in heir before this Assemblie, and declair that he assents unto the institutions of this Kirk, who is knowne not only to be in some things corrupt in his judgement, but disassenting from the orthodox doctrine of the Kirk of Scotland, and corrupted with many moe errours.
The Commissioner said—I suspect if yow looke some of your processes, you shall find litle more proven against some of them, but these thinges whereof I have spocken, except it be some pycked quarrells. But if your Lordship and this Assembly conceaves that we can doe nothing in that but by takeing in the reportes and makeing formall Acts thereupon, which is nothing but to evince what we professe to ayme at, and to fall upon those rockes which we have hitherto eschued, I doe professe that I can neither consent nor be a witnes unto it. As for the second—for being of adverse judgment, I hope yow are not so cruell as absolutelie to condemne a man for being of a contrare opinion anent Ruleing Elders or such other.