That this certificate is both suspicious and evasive, I appeal to the pamphlet page 27. Why do they not tell their fellow-citizens, that they did not collectively or individually during that session charge Young with ill-treatment towards them? Would not this have been perfectly easy if true? Why do they blink the question, and tell a long story about a conversation which they held with Mr. Bunce, which whether it was true or untrue, is totally immaterial? What do they mean in a later stage of their certificate, by the unsuspecting and unguarded conversation, they had held with Mr. Bunce, and which they were afraid he would make mischief of? Do they call the conversation which they detail an unguarded one? Or was it some other conversation and conversations which shall be proved upon them? Instead of saying that they expressed no opinion to Bunce that "Young ought not again to be nominated," why do they not tell us, whether they or either of them expressed any opinion to Bunce, or any other person, against his nomination the then next spring? In Mr. Kasson's letter (p. 33) it appears they told him that "Bunce and another gentleman" called on them, with whom they held a conversation; whereas the one given in their recent certificate is confined exclusively to Bunce. Read also the following certificate of these men, which they gave to the public last spring; in which they admit some other conversation which they call a free and unreserved conversation, and protest against the "treacherous perversion" of it.
"To the Citizens of the county of Saratoga."
"Having heard that a private conversation of ours has been represented to our Fellow Citizens in a light unfavorable to the character of Samuel Young, Esq. and has been used to his prejudice, in the estimation of his constituents.—We discharge a duty grateful to our individual feelings, due to the feelings and character of a highly useful, able, faithful and industrious Member of Assembly, and due to our county, to express our pointed indignation against the treacherous perversion of the spirit of a free and unreserved conversation by stating to our fellow citizens, that we have always lived in the most perfect harmony with Mr. Young, have had with him on all legislative business the most cordial co-operation and concert: that his uniform deportment towards us has been friendly and decorous, and that we never gave an intimation of any wish or opinion against his renomination to the Assembly.—HOWEL GARDNER, RICHARD KETCHUM, BENJAMIN COWLES. Albany, April 17, 1815."[1]
Whatever name these gentlemen, may have given to their conversations, some times calling them unsuspecting and unguarded, and sometimes free and unreserved, in order to determine their nature and place them in a clear light, I shall now go on to shew the public what they did say, and not stop to quarrel about names so long as I am sure that public will be content with the things themselves. I challenge incredulity itself after reading the following affidavits and statements, to doubt one moment on the subject.
"Isaiah Bunce & Thomas Palmer being duly sworn, say, that they were at Albany in the early part of the late session of the Legislature, and put up at the house where the Delegates of the county of Saratoga quartered. That they and three of the Delegates from said county, viz. Messrs. Ketcham, Gardner and Cowles, conversed freely with each other on various political subjects, and in one conversation they had with these said Members, they told these Deponents, that they had not been well treated by their colleague Mr. Young—spoke freely of their unpleasant situation, owing to that treatment, mentioning a number of instances illustrating the same, both in the fall session and the then session of the Legislature.
"And these deponents further say, that they the said Ketcham, Gardner and Cowles, did in that conversation, decidedly express their opinion that the said Young ought not to represent this county again in the next session—at the same time signifying that they had no wish, that the talents of Mr. Young should be lost to the county, but believed it would be for his benefit, should he not be elected the ensuing session—or language to that import.
"And these deponents further say, that this conversation took place while it was generally believed and expected, and so expressed by the said Ketcham, Cowles and Gardner in particular, that Mr. Young would in a day or two, be appointed Secretary of the State of New-York.—ISAIAH BUNCE, THOMAS PALMER. Sworn the 5th day of May, in the Year 1815, before me SAMUEL COOK, Master in Chancery."
"John Dunning being sworn saith, That in March last, He went to Albany and there saw Benjamin Cowles Esq. one of the Delegates from Saratoga, who told this deponent, that Samuel Young Esq. had treated the Members of this county with neglect, that their situation owing to the treatment they had received from him was very disagreeable, or words to that amount—mentioning instances of that neglect &c.
"And this deponent further saith, That on his return from Albany, he overtook Richard Ketchum Esq. then going to visit his family in Stillwater—that he conversed with the said Ketchum, on the subject of Mr. Young's treatment to them, who informed this deponent the same as Mr. Cowles had done, and related several circumstances confirming the same.—JOHN DUNNING. Subscribed and sworn before me, Philo T. Beebe, one of the Justices of the Peace in Malta, County of Saratoga, the 4th day of May 1815_. PHILO T. BEEBE, Justice of the Peace.
"Amos Allcott being sworn saith, that Messrs. Ketchum, Gardner and Cowles, three of the Delegates from the county of Saratoga, some time in March last, when at Albany, told this Deponent, that they had been ill-treated, or not well treated by Samuel Young Esq. their colleague—and expressed their opinion and wishes fully, that some other person than he, should the next session represent this county in Assembly. Mr. Ketchum in presence of the other two, said he had made up his mind fully in favor of George Palmer, Esq. or Esek Cowen Esq. being the man, to which the other two appeared to assent.—Mr. Gardner however remarked, that some said Mr. Young might be sufficiently, mortified by not being appointed Secretary of State.—AMOS ALLCOTT. Sworn the 5th day of May, in the Year 1815, before me SAMUEL COOK Master in Chancery."