"Lewis B. Edwards being sworn saith, That a few days after Mr. Bunce and Palmer returned from Albany—Mr. Gardner Member of Assembly, called at the office of the Saratoga Journal, on his way home to see his family, and told Mr. Bunce among other things, that Mr. Young had lost the Office of Secretary of State, and that Mr. Porter was appointed. And further remarked, 'it may be best to suspend the thing we talked of, his loosing that may humble him enough, pride will have a all'—or words to that import.
"And this Deponent further saith, That about a fortnight after this, Mr. Cowles one of the other Members of Assembly, called at the Office on his return from Hadley to the Legislature, and on Mr. Bunce, asking him whether Mr. Young had treated them any better since his disappointment, he replied he had not—and that Mr. Young had never yet even asked them to walk to the House with him or words to that effect. On the said Bunces enquiry whether he had mentioned the subject to any of his friends while at home—he replied that he intended to have done so to Esq. Rockwell, but he had missed of him returning from Albany. Mr. Rockwell, as appeared having gone to Albany while Mr. Cowles was going to Hadley.—LEWIS B. EDWARDS. Sworn the fifth day of May, in the year 1815, before me SAMUEL COOK, Master in Chancery."
It is here proper to remark, that on the 18th of April, the day of the McBain meeting; Judge Child, recommended that no publication he made on either side, and that after election a meeting should take place between the members and Messrs. Bunce and Palmer, and endeavor to come to an amicable explanation. Mr. Stillwell, will well remember, that two days afterwards he called on Mr. Palmer, with a message from Judge Child, requesting him, "by all means not to publish any thing during the election, relative to the conversation with the members," to which Mr. Palmer readily assented. Notwithstanding which, the next day the certificate of the members, were brought to the Federal Printing Office, and several hundred copies struck off, with the knowledge of Mr. Stillwell, who then kept his office within a few rods of the Federal Press. Yet no contrary statements were published during the election, nor until after two or three weeks had expired after the time set by Mr. Cowles, for the members to meet Messrs. Bunce and Palmer. The members were requested by several Republicans to meet; they were finally publicly invited in the Journal, but contrary to the expectations and wishes of a great portion of the Republicans of the County, they did not come forward; and the above affidavits were published. And here the controversy on this point might have ended; but it seems the members, or rather the 'Citizen,' was not satisfied, and he procures another certificate from them, which may be seen in page 27 28 and 29 of that pamphlet. Compare their two statements—examine the above affidavits again—read the following certificates, and judge for yourselves.
"I hereby certify, that I met Benjamin Cowles, Esq. at Jones' Inn in Halfmoon, on his return home from the Legislature, on the 20th of April last, two days after the McBain meeting, and we there conversed together on the subject of the conversation he Messrs. Ketchum and Gardner, had with Messrs. Bunce and Palmer, in Albany, (where it was alleged that they Ketchum, Cowles and Gardner, had complained of vanity, neglect and ill-treatment of Mr. Young.) That I expressed my surplice to Mr. Cowles, that he, (Cowles) Ketchum and Gardner should lend their names to an instrument denying the conversation above alluded to, when he Cowles, Ketchum and Gardner, knew they had not only complained to Bunce and Palmer, but to myself and others. To which he answered, that the certificate given by them was not given meaning to deny any thing that had been said as respected ill-treatment, &c. of Mr. Young, but only to re-but other things which the gentlemen who called for the certificate, (among whom were James Thompson, Esq.) represented to have been said. On which I suggested the propriety of his calling on Bunce and Palmer, at the Springs; and immediately getting his colleagues to meet them, and have the thing explained, and prevent improper use being made of their certificate; to which preposition he, after expressing his regret that it had become public, cordially acceded. I then parted with him on my way to New-York.—AMOS ALLCOTT, Ballston Spa, March 1816."
"I certify, that Mr. Cowles did on that day, (20th April) call on Mr. Bunce as mentioned in the above certificate of Mr. Allcott he had agreed to do, and after some conversation on the subject, in which he admitted that he, Gardner and Ketchum, had complained of Young's ill treatment and haughtiness to them, and their expressing their opinion against his being nominated as a candidate for that election &c. he strongly solicited Mr. Bunce to have nothing published in his paper on the subject, till he could go and see his colleagues, Mr. Gardner and Ketchum, and get them to meet and have the affair explained and reconciled, which he said he would at all events endeavor to do before the next paper should come out, [this being Thursday, and the paper not to appear before the next Wednesday,] that he was then in a great hurry, and must get home that night, but he would make it his business to immediately attend to it; to which proposition Mr. Bunce readily agreed, and promised Mr. Cowles accordingly. This conversation was in the office of the Saratoga Journal, in the room in which I was at work. The next day however, information was brought to Mr. Bunce in the office, that the certificate of the said Cowles, Gardner and Ketchum, denying the conversation relative to Mr. Young, was then striking off at Mr. Comstock's Office in this place, and shortly after a printed copy was brought into the office.— LEWIS B. EDWARDS. Ballston Spa, March 1816."
"I certify, that shortly after the rising of the Legislature, I saw Benjamin Cowles, Esq. in the village of Ballston Spa, on his way home; And in a conversation with him relative to the reports respecting Mr. Young, I asked him whether he had not told Mr. Bunce and Palmer, 'that Mr. Young had treated his colleagues with neglect, and that his treatment towards them was haughty and reserved,' to which Mr. Cowles answered in the affirmative. I further asked him if he did not tell Mr. Palmer and Bunce, 'that he was convinced of Mr. Young's vanity, previous to his being in the Legislature with him,' and state as an example 'that while they were Supervisors, they were appointed a committee to arrange or make out an account, for the board of Supervisors, and that he the said Benjamin Cowles, Esq. made out the account himself and delivered it to Mr. Y. who copied and presented it to the board of Supervisors, and claimed the credit of it himself.' To all of which Mr. Cowles answered in the affirmative, and expressed a wish that Mr. B. and P. would not publish any thing concerning the conversation, as he was anxious to see Messrs. Gardner and Ketchum, and have the affair reconciled. He further stated that he did not think that the certificate given by Mr. Ketchum, Gardner and himself, to Jas. Thompson; Esq. did deny the conversation with Bunce and Palmer.—A.W. ODELL. Ballston Spa, March, 1816."
"I certify that some time in the month of February 1815, Benjamin Cowles, Esq. came home from the Legislature on a visit, that I saw Mr. Cowles at Ensign's Inn, in the town of Hadley, in which town we both reside; and that we then and there entered into a conversation concerning Mr. Young, and that Mr. Cowles intimated to me that Mr. Young's treatment was haughty towards the members, and said that he was disappointed in his expectations in the treatment he received from Mr. Young, and he further told me that he thought it would be as well to send some other man to the Legislature the then ensuing year.
"I further certify, that some time in the fall of 1815, I had another conversation with the said Benjamin Cowles, Esq. on the subject of the affidavits that had been published, relative to the conversation said to have passed between Isaiah Bunce and Thomas Palmer, and the members in Albany; and that during that conversation he did not contradict the statements published, but gave me to understand that the same were true, and intimated that he had inconsiderately signed the certificate published during the election.
"I further certify, that Mr. Cowles was the first person, who informed me of the ill-treatment the members had received from Mr. Young, and that it would be as well to send some other person to the Legislature the ensuing year.—BARRY FENTON. Hadley, March 1816."
"I, Jacob Thorn, of Galway, in the county of Saratoga; do certify, that shortly after the affidavits of Messrs. Bunce, Palmer, Allcott, Dunning and Edwards, were published, relative to the conversation they had with Messrs. Ketcham, Gardner and Cowles in Albany; I had a conversation with Mr. Ketcham in Stillwater, relative to the affidavits published. I told him if the affidavits were not true, he ought to contradict them. He replied, that his friends advised him to say nothing about it. I enquired of him the meaning of those affidavits—-and whether the facts therein stated were true—to which the said Ketcham answered, that they were true—but said he did not expect it would have been made public.—JACOB THORN."