327. After this I said to the by-standers, "You have seen from these three experimental proofs what is the difference between spiritual and natural, and also the reason why the natural man does not appear to the spiritual, nor the spiritual to the natural, although they are consociated as to affections and thoughts, and thence as to presence. Hence it is that, as I approached, at one time you, Sir, (addressing the chief teacher), saw me, and at another you did not." After this, a voice was heard from the superior heaven to the chief teacher, saying, "Come up hither;" and he went up: and on his return, he said, that the angels, as well as himself, did not before know the differences between spiritual and natural, because there had never before been an opportunity of comparing them together, by any person's existing at the same time in both worlds; and without such comparison and reference those differences were not ascertainable.

328. After this we retired, and conversing again on this subject, I said, "Those differences originate solely in this circumstance of your existence in the spiritual world, that you are in substantials and not in materials: and substantials are the beginning of materials. You are in principles and thereby in singulars; but we are in principiates and composites; you are in particulars, but we are in generals; and as generals cannot enter into particulars, so neither can natural things, which are material, enter into spiritual things which are substantial, any more than a ship's cable can enter into, or be drawn though, the eye of a fine needle; or than a nerve can enter or be let into one of the fibres of which it is composed, or a fibre into one of the fibrils of which it is composed: this also is known in the world: therefore herein the learned are agreed, that there is no such thing as an influx of what is natural into what is spiritual, but of what is spiritual into what is natural. This now is the reason why the natural man cannot conceive that which the spiritual man conceives, nor consequently express such conceptions; wherefore Paul calls what he heard from the third heaven ineffable. Moreover, to think spiritually is to think abstractedly from space and time, and to think naturally is to think in conjunction with space and time; for in every idea of natural thought there is something derived from space and time, which is not the case with any spiritual idea; because the spiritual world is not in space and time, like the natural world, but in the appearances of space and time. In this respect also spiritual thoughts and perceptions differ from natural; therefore you can think of the essence and omnipresence of God from eternity, that is, of God before the creation of the world, since you think of the essence of God from eternity abstracted from time, and of his omnipresence abstracted from space, and thus comprehend such things as transcend the ideas of the natural man." I then related to them, how I once thought of the essence and omnipresence of God from eternity, that is of God before the creation of the world; and that because I could not yet remove spaces and times from the ideas of my thought, I was brought into anxiety; for the idea of nature entered instead of God: but it was said to me, "Remove the ideas of space and time, and you will see." I did so and then I saw; and from that time I was enabled to think of God from eternity, and not of nature from eternity; because God is in all time without time, and in all space without space, whereas nature in all time is in time, and in all space in space; and nature with her time and space, must of necessity have a beginning and a birth, but not God who is without time, and space; therefore nature is from God, not from eternity, but in time, that is, together with her time and space.

329. After the chief teacher and the rest of the assembly had left me, some boys who were also engaged in the gymnasian exercise, followed me home, and stood near me for a little while as I was writing: and lo! at that instant they saw a moth running upon my paper, and asked in surprise what was the name of that nimble little creature? I said, "It is called a moth; and I will tell you some wonderful things respecting it. This little animal contains in itself as many members and viscera as there are in a camel, such as brains, hearts, pulmonary pipes, organs of sense, motion, and generation, a stomach, intestines, and several others; and each of these organs consists of fibres, nerves, blood-vessels, muscles, tendons, membranes; and each of these of still purer parts, which escape the observation of the keenest eye." They then said that this little animal appeared to them just like a simple substance; upon which I said, "There are nevertheless innumerable things within it. I mention these things that you may know, that the case is similar in regard to every object which appears before you as one, simple and least, as well in your actions as in your affections and thoughts. I can assure you that every grain of thought, that every drop of your affection, is divisible ad infinitum: and that in proportion as your ideas are divisible, so you are wise. Know then, that every thing divided is more and more multiple, and not more and more simple; because what is continually divided approaches nearer and nearer to the infinite, in which all things are infinitely. What I am now observing to you is new and heretofore unheard of." When I concluded, the boys took their leave of me, and went to the chief teacher, and intreated him to take an opportunity to propose in the gymnasium somewhat new and unheard of as a problem. He inquired, "What?" they said, "That every thing divided is more and more multiple, and not more and more simple; because it approaches nearer and nearer to the infinite, in which all things are infinitely:" and he pledged himself to propose it, and said, "I see this, because I have perceived that one natural idea contains innumerable spiritual ideas; yea, that one spiritual idea contains innumerable celestial ideas. Herein is grounded the difference between the celestial wisdom of the angels of the third heaven, and the spiritual wisdom of the angels of the second heaven, and also the natural wisdom of the angels of the last heaven and likewise of men."

330. THE SECOND MEMORABLE RELATION. I once heard a pleasant discussion between some men respecting the female sex, whether it be possible for a woman to love her husband, who constantly loves her own beauty, that is, who loves herself from her form. They agreed among themselves first, that women have two-fold beauty; one natural, which is that of the face and body, and the other spiritual which is that of the love and manners; they agreed also, that these two kinds of beauty are often divided in the natural world, and are always united in the spiritual world; for in the latter world beauty is the form of the love and manners; therefore after death it frequently happens that deformed women become beauties, and beautiful women become deformities. While the men were discussing this point, there came some wives, and said, "Admit of our presence; because what you are discussing, you have learned by science, but we are taught it by experience; and you likewise know so little of the love of wives, that it scarcely amounts to any knowledge. Do you know that the prudence of the wives' wisdom consists in hiding their love from their husbands in the inmost recess of their bosoms, or in the midst of their hearts?" The discussion then proceeded; and the FIRST CONCLUSION made by the men was, That every woman is willing to appear beautiful as to face and manners, because she is born an affection of love, and the form of this affection is beauty; therefore a woman that is not desirous to be beautiful, is not desirous to love and to be loved, and consequently is not truly a woman. Hereupon the wives observed, "The beauty of a woman resides in soft tenderness, and consequently in exquisite sensibility; hence comes the woman's love for the man, and the man's for the woman. This possibly you do not understand." The SECOND CONCLUSION of the men was, That a woman before marriage is desirous to be beautiful for the men, but after marriage, if she be chaste, for one man only, and not for the men. Hereupon the wives observed. "When the husband has sipped the natural beauty of the wife, he sees it no longer, but sees her spiritual beauty; and from this he re-loves, and recalls the natural beauty, but under another aspect." The THIRD CONCLUSION of their discussion was, That if a woman after marriage is desirous to appear beautiful in like manner as before marriage, she loves the men, and not a man: because a woman loving herself from her beauty is continually desirous that her beauty should be sipped; and as this no longer appears to her husband, as you observed, she is desirous that it may be sipped by the men to whom it appears. It is evident that such a one has a love of the sex, and not a love of one of the sex. Hereupon the wives were silent; yet they murmured, "What woman is so void of vanity, as not to desire to seem beautiful to the men also, at the same time that she seems beautiful to one man only?" These things were heard by some wives from heaven, who were beautiful, because they were heavenly affections. They confirmed the conclusions of the men; but they added, "Let them only love their beauty and its ornaments for the sake of their husbands, and from them."

331. Those three wives being indignant that the three conclusions of the men were confirmed by the wives from heaven, said to the men, "You have inquired whether a woman that loves herself from her beauty, loves her husband; we in our turn will therefore inquire whether a man who loves himself from his intelligence, can love his wife. Be present and hear." This was their FIRST CONCLUSION; No wife loves her husband on account of his face, but on account of his intelligence in his business and manners: know therefore, that a wife unites herself with a man's intelligence and thereby with the man: therefore if a man loves himself on account of his intelligence, he withdraws it from the wife into himself, whence comes disunion and not union: moreover to love his own intelligence is to be wise from himself, and this is to be insane; therefore it is to love his own insanity. Hereupon the men observed, "Possibly the wife unites herself with the man's strength or ability." At this the wives smiled, saying, "There is no deficiency of ability while the man loves the wife from intelligence; but there is if he loves her from insanity. Intelligence consists in loving the wife only: and in this love there is no deficiency of ability; but insanity consists in not loving the wife but the sex, and in this love there is a deficiency of ability. You comprehend this." The SECOND CONCLUSION was; We women are born into the love of the men's intelligence; therefore if the men love their own intelligence, it cannot be united with its genuine love, which belongs to the wife; and if the man's intelligence is not united with its genuine love, which belongs to the wife, it becomes insanity grounded in haughtiness, and conjugial love becomes cold. What woman in such case can unite her love to what is cold; and what man can unite the insanity of his haughtiness to the love of intelligence? But the men said, "Whence has a man honor from his wife but by her magnifying his intelligence?" The wives replied, "From love, because love honors; and honor cannot be separated from love, but love maybe from honor." Afterwards they came to this THIRD CONCLUSION; You seemed as if you loved your wives; and you do not see that you are loved by them, and thus that you re-love; and that your intelligence is a receptacle: if therefore you love your intelligence in yourselves, it becomes the receptacle of your love; and the love of proprium (or self-hood), since it cannot endure an equal, never becomes conjugial love; but so long as it prevails, so long it remains adulterous. Hereupon the men were silent; nevertheless they murmured, "What is conjugial love?" Some husbands in heaven heard what passed, and confirmed thence the three conclusions of the wives.