In many cases where the consolidation would be beneficial, do not you consider it would be resisted from local motives?—Perhaps it might be resisted; it will be unfortunate when that happens to be the case, but when the good effects of it begin to be seen in the country, I think those objections would be got rid of.
Do you believe that the first effects of such consolidation would be a diminution of expense?—I am quite certain of that.
How is that diminution of expense to arise?—By introducing a much better mode of management, it would occasion more regularity in the mode of keeping accounts, it would introduce a diminution of expense materially in horse labour, and in various other things; that I think, upon the whole, the diminution of expense by such regulation would be found very great indeed.
Do not you believe that the present system of maintaining roads is the means of a continued increase of expense in the debt and tolls throughout the kingdom?—I think the debt is increasing very much throughout the kingdom and that the debt is perhaps greater than gentlemen in parliament are aware of; at present tolls are increasing.
Do you consider that there is a corresponding improvement in the roads, in proportion to the increase of the tolls and debts?—By no means; my belief is, that where the greatest expense is, there the worst management is, or rather, that the worst management produces the greatest expense.
Then, in your opinion, a great improvement might be effected on the roads in general, which might be accompanied in the end by a gradual diminution of debt and tolls?—Certainly, I think so.
Can you give any information as to the total amount of general debt on the roads now existing in England and Wales? After inquiring by all the means that an unauthorized individual could do in different parts of the country, and ascertaining, as nearly as I could, the amount of debt upon a great number of trusts; I have been inclined to believe that the debt at present amounts to about seven millions in England and Wales.
Are you of opinion that any considerable advantage might be derived in the management of the roads, by a commutation for the statute labour?—Yes; I think very great advantage would be derived by the public, if the statute labour were commuted for money, and that, if it were commuted at a very low rate; if it were one half of the real value of the work, I should think, the roads would be more benefited by it in general through the country.
Is it the general practice in Scotland, under any act of parliament, to commute statute labour for money?—All the acts of parliament I am acquainted with in Scotland, have commuted it; one in the county I belong to, commuted it twenty years ago with very great advantage.
You have mentioned that the commissioners of the Westminster bridge road required you to employ a considerable number of paupers; the Committee wish to know whether it is the general practice, in your observation, to employ paupers upon roads?—I have always found that in every place where the improvement of the roads has been commenced, under any advice given by me, it has been desired very much by the inhabitants that the people unemployed (not, perhaps, paupers that generally receive parish relief, but those people who come to ask for relief, because they cannot get work) should be employed on the road; and it has been very much my wish to gratify that desire by giving them work, not by the day, but by the piece, because that has generally put them off the parishes; the moment they get work to do, by which they can get their bread, and without which they cannot get their bread, they quit the parish.