Mr. Justice Maule. The Committee must have taken that to be the fact.
Mr. Kelly. If your Lordship thinks it must fairly be supposed to refer to that matter, then the question is whether that makes it evidence; I will call your Lordship’s attention to what he says: The Chairman asks him, “Is there any other part of the evidence which has been given that you wish to observe upon?—It is asked here in [question 5086], ‘Who was he?’ The answer is, ‘The name is mentioned in the Parliamentary Papers as being connected with the purchase of a slave vessel, Mr. Kidd; and it is mentioned in connexion with that of Mr. Zulueta, of London.’” There was some former transaction of the purchase of a slave vessel, in which Mr. Kidd was a party. He goes on to say, “Now, as to Mr. Kidd, the very first thing I ever knew or ever heard of his name, was to see it here. I never heard of his name at all. I never had a letter from him or through him, or knew any thing of the man whatever. That is with regard to myself. With regard to my partners, I can say the same; I have been making inquiries about it. My father knew there was such a man upon the coast, but I did not know even that, though I have managed all this business.” What business can that relate to, but the business in which Mr. Kidd’s name was mentioned, which was the purchase of a slave vessel?
Mr. Justice Maule. I should think not: his father knew there was such a man upon the coast; “I did not know that, although I had that management of the business” which would lead me to know all the men on the coast, that is to say, all the coast business; that is the way I understand it, I confess.
Mr. Kelly. I cannot conceive that it is so; but it is for your Lordships to decide. Supposing that it is, I do not know how that makes this entry in the book evidence. Your Lordships will look at the next question: He is asked, “You have no connexion with Mr. Kidd in any way?—No; nor any knowledge of him.” Then he goes on with the same business; he was never alluding to the principal business, that of the Augusta.
Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. You will find he gives there an account of the whole transaction. Mr. Forster says, “You advanced the money to Captain Jennings for the purchase of a vessel; Jennings transferring the vessel to you as a security for the amount so advanced?—That is just the description of operation, which is a very general one in business.”
Mr. Serjeant Bompas (to Mr. Thomas.) Whose handwriting is that?—The handwriting of a Mr. Daniel, in our office.
Mr. Kelly. I submit that this relates to the business of Mr. Kidd.
Mr. Justice Maule. It struck me otherwise; but at the same time you seem so extremely satisfied with your own view, and my view is just as it struck me, that you stagger me by your positiveness.
Mr. Kelly. I should not like your Lordship or the Jury to be misled as to the amount of interference by this gentleman in the business. Suppose it is so, that he had the management of the fitting out of the Augusta, how does that make evidence of an entry in the banker’s book of the payment of a sum of money? He cannot say to whom he paid it, or on whose account? How can that make it evidence upon a charge of felony? I do not know the nature of it, but I am quite sure it is quite consistent with Pedro Zulueta, having done all he has admitted to have done before the Committee, that he never heard of that payment.
Mr. Justice Maule. In whose handwriting is the signature to the charter-party?