Mr. O’Connell. The older people of the State that were in the pension organization, and so on. And outside the organization as well that they had influence on.
Mr. Tavenner. Were your discussions with the leadership of the Washington Pension Union chiefly with Pennock and Rabbitt?
Mr. O’Connell. Well, during my time out there I think the Washington Pension Union, if I remember correctly, had a whole host of vice presidents, I don’t know how many, I think they elected—I think Rabbitt was one of those vice presidents. But the executive officer of the Washington Pension Union of course was Pennock and in my work as executive secretary of the Democratic Party and also the Progressive Party I certainly conferred with Pennock, I certainly asked him to see that things were done by the campaign and see that work was done in connection with it.
But in my time out there I think, I don’t think Rabbitt was any kind of—was he a full-time paid employee of the Pension Union?
Mr. Tavenner. I am not sure what his official connection was with it.
Mr. O’Connell. My recollection is that he was one of the many vice presidents, I think if I recall there were about 16 vice presidents and I think he was one of them. As far as Rabbitt and Pennock were concerned, all of the time they were both leaders in the Democratic Party. Rabbitt was a Democrat State senator from a legislative district, Pennock was a representative from the same legislative district and likewise within the Democratic organization particularly in King County and because King County was the largest county in the State, the impact it would have on the State organization as well, I was thrown into considerable contact with them in my work as executive secretary of the Democratic Party with both Pennock and Rabbitt.
Mr. Velde. Mr. O’Connell, both Pennock and Rabbitt were generally known to be members of the Communist Party, as members of the district board, were they not?
Mr. O’Connell. I don’t know. I couldn’t say. I don’t think Rabbitt acknowledged he was a member of the Communist Party and Pennock only announced it shortly before he died. Shortly before the beginning of the Smith Act trial in Seattle, he announced he was.
Mr. Tavenner. You were quite aware, were you not, of the effort being made by the Communist Party to take over the Washington Pension Union?
Mr. O’Connell. I don’t know whether I—I was not in Washington Pension Union. I was not engaged in its work or activity.