[Here Mr. S. was interrupted by several members; and Mr. Nicholas and Mr. Smilie declared that in their opinion, there was no obligation to indemnify the sufferers, except it were done out of a fund to be formed by the sequestration of British property.]
Mr. S. said he was obliged to the gentlemen for setting him right; till now he had believed that the right of the sufferers to indemnification was denied by none. If this, however, was really a question yet to be decided, it was due to the sufferers, it was due to our own honor, to decide it without delay. It was asked, by what means is the Government to administer redress? They were first to apply to the Governments which had inflicted the injuries, to state their nature and extent, and to demand, in unequivocal terms, redress. This business, notwithstanding all the opposition which had been made, was happily in a proper train. He hoped and believed that the application would be effectual. It might, however, fail; and in that case, he was free to declare that we owed it to our honor and to our injured citizens, to attempt redress by means of the last resort. In that unhappy event, the interests of the sufferers must be involved with the general interests of the nation, and must abide the ultimate result of war. But if satisfaction should not be obtained by negotiation, and should the Government, from any political considerations, not seek redress by force, in such events the sufferers would have a just claim on their country for indemnification. The question now immediately before the House was, to refer the motion for indemnification to the Committee of the Whole on the subject of sequestration. This was not fair, as it respected that part of the House who approved an engagement to indemnify, and who would never consent to sequestration. It was not fair as respected the sufferers, because he believed there was not a gentleman in the House who supposed that the measure of sequestration would prevail. He was astonished that any should believe that it ought to be adopted. He, himself, without hesitation, approved of engaging to indemnify the sufferers; but at the same time, with all his heart, he abhorred sequestration and confiscation of debts, as the measures which all civilized nations had for more than a century abandoned as immoral and unjust. He would not now enter into a discussion of the question of sequestration. Whenever it came directly under consideration, he pledged himself to undertake to prove that it was against the law of nations, that it was immoral, unjust, and impolitic. He had been sorry to perceive that the feelings of the mover of that proposition (Mr. Dayton) were wounded, by the terms in which gentlemen had spoken of his motion. He himself, in his conscience, believed it to be immoral and unjust; and, as such, he felt himself bound as a man of honor to give it his strenuous opposition. The gentleman surely could not reasonably expect that independent men would sacrifice opinion to politeness or to friendship. All he could do, and that he did with pleasure, was to declare that he believed the gentleman's motives were pure and upright, and that he had a perfect confidence in the correctness of his moral sentiments. Viewing the subject in the light he had expressed, he appealed to the candor and fairness of gentlemen, to what tended the combining of those irritative questions of indemnification and sequestration, but to wound the feelings and evade the just application of the sufferers? Gentlemen had charged his colleague, and those who had supported his motion, with attempting, by these means, meanly to court popularity. To refute this charge would, in his opinion, be unnecessary, because no well-informed man in America could believe it. He did not know that the opinions which were held by his friends and himself on this subject, were popular; it was sufficient that they were believed to be just. Was he, however, disposed to recriminate, by disclosing motives which were not avowed, but concealed, he could tell a tale, which, he believed, could be heard with effect.
Mr. Goodhue spoke a few words, in direct opposition to what had been advanced by Mr. Dayton. The two propositions ought to be discussed separately. We had sent a negotiator to Britain, and a sequestration would put an end to his business. The citizens of the United States ought to be taxed, in the mean time, to pay these losses; and it was possible that a sequestration might, hereafter, be thought advisable. He very strongly pressed the idea of a tax to this end. It would be a proceeding of the most superlative impropriety, to lay on such a sequestration at this particular juncture, when we had just agreed to take off the Embargo, because our ships would go to England, and be all seized, by way of reprisal.
Mr. Clark recommended that both propositions should be laid aside for the present, and be suffered to take a sweet nap together, till a more convenient time. He spoke with much contempt of the notion of taxing the people of this country to pay for the ravages of Britain. The Court of London would say to the world: "You see that we acted right: you see the United States think so likewise; for they themselves pay their merchants."
Mr. Giles agreed with Mr. Clark: but as there is a necessary sameness in the arguments on this question, and as they have already been detailed in so many different forms, it seems needless to repeat them over again so frequently. He said that when this tax came to be levied, every farmer would say, every man in America would say, "We shall have nothing to do with this business. Why don't you indemnify British depredations out of the British property that is within your grasp?" He had heard that Congress ought to decide an abstract proposition, viz: that this Government was, in any event, bound to pay the recent losses of its merchants by sea; and then proceed to assign funds for the payment. He thought that before Congress undertook any such engagement, they ought at least to be possessed of the money requisite to discharge it. He hoped that the House would never proceed to a vote in support of any abstract axiom, especially where taxes and public money were concerned, till they had carefully digested the collateral circumstances.
Mr. Dexter spoke against the amendment. He said, that very strong reasons existed both for taking into consideration a proposition for indemnity to the sufferers, and also against connecting it with sequestration or any other subject. Each ought to stand or fall on its own merits. The sufferers were numerous, and deserving citizens; they had waited a long time, and had a right to know, before the close of the session, what protection they were to expect from the Government of their own country. Sequestration, without a change of political circumstances, would never pass both Houses of the Legislature; to connect them, then, would be to deny relief, without even examining the principles on which they claim it. He said, British debts had been called the only proper and natural funds: in his opinion, they would be no fund at all, even if sequestration could be adopted. The debts would never be collected; and not only so, but sequestration would be the beginning of hostilities, and war must ensue; this, at the same moment, would prevent all hope of obtaining justice from Britain, and also discharge our own Government from every obligation to indemnify. Mr. D. said he would state what, in his opinion, was the proper and natural fund—the money to be demanded of Britain by our Envoy Extraordinary. Should this fail, the Government of America would either pay the sufferers, or grant them letters of marque and reprisal. This, he said, is the constant course of nations, and this the sufferers have a right to demand, as a counterpart of their allegiance. Mr. D. said, it had been objected that the British Government would be encouraged by it to refuse a recompense. This, if true, would be a serious objection, for he had always viewed negotiation as affording the only probable chance for indemnity to the sufferers. If a recompense be refused by Britain, war will be the consequence. The objection, however, he thought, would be entirely removed, by attending to the resolution itself. It is not, he said, a provision for taking the debt on ourselves, but merely to guarantee a recompense to the sufferers. The very word itself implies that the Government of America is not the principal debtor, but is to compel another to make indemnity, or become the debtor. Mr. D. closed with saying that he had attended only to the reasoning of the gentlemen, and not to their personalities. It was not his practice to leave the question, to impute to others motives either corrupt or paltry: if they chose to glean imaginary laurels on this ground, he was not anxious to share them; they could best judge whether, in this way, they were likely to increase their reputation or benefit the public.
Messrs. Ames, Murray, Smith, (of South Carolina,) and Hillhouse, also spoke against the amendment, and said the merits of neither proposition were now before the House, but only the mode in which the subject should be considered; that they were in themselves separate and independent, and ought to have a separate and independent consideration; they were questions of very great national concern, and that blending them together would give an undue bias, and neither would be fairly and impartially decided. It was doubtful whether the resolution for sequestration ever ought to be adopted, and that to connect the two subjects, would be to hang a millstone about the necks of the sufferers; that, as they were a numerous and very meritorious class of citizens, their claim merited a candid and full examination, unembarrassed with any other matter.
A warm dispute arose about the form in which the question on this resolution should be taken. The point actually contested seemed to be, whether the resolution was to be referred to the committee on Mr. Dayton's motion for the sequestration of British property, or to a separate committee, which was insisted on by the mover, Mr. Goodhue.
A division took place upon the question of agreeing to Mr. Dayton's amendment, to add, after the words "be referred to a Committee of the Whole," the following words, viz: "to whom were referred the resolutions for sequestering the British debts;" and the yeas and nays being called for, were taken—yeas 57, nays 31, as follows:
Yeas.—Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, John Beatty, Thomas Blount, Elias Boudinot, Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel Christie, Thomas Claiborne, Abraham Clark, Isaac Coles, William J. Dawson, Jonathan Dayton, Henry Dearborn, George Dent, William Findlay, William B. Giles, James Gillespie, Alexander Gillon, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, William B. Grove, George Hancock, John Heath, Daniel Heister, William Hindman, John Hunter, Matthew Locke, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Joseph McDowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Nathaniel Niles, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Josiah Parker, Andrew Pickens, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, Thomas Scott, John S. Sherburne, John Smilie, Israel Smith, Silas Talbot, Philip Van Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Benjamin Williams, Richard Winn, and Joseph Winston.