When Mr. Madison had concluded,
Mr. S. Lyman rose.—I do not rise, said Mr. L., with an intention to go into a detail upon this subject, or to exhibit a comparative view of the advantages and disadvantages which may attend the operation of this Treaty, but only to make a few remarks, which may be considered as preparatory to a more minute discussion.
Although I believe a discussion of this Treaty is not strictly in order, because it does not come before us immediately as a subject of debate and legislation, but as a piece of information from the Executive, yet I have no doubt but that a thorough discussion of its principles may produce a happy effect; for I believe the more it is understood, the less various will be Our sentiments, the greater the degree of unanimity among ourselves, so much the greater will be the unanimity among our constituents. This unanimity is an object of the greatest magnitude, not only as the source of national respectability and honor, but as the only true source of national happiness and prosperity; it is therefore the indispensable duty of Government to maintain internal peace and tranquillity, and upon this ground alone it is I am willing the Treaty should be thoroughly discussed. I am sensible this Treaty presents itself with an unfavorable aspect, and what is the reason? Is it not because we have entertained too exalted ideas of our own national importance? A generous and noble pride we ought to entertain as a nation, and without this pride we should be guilty of ingratitude to Heaven, for Providence has placed within our reach all the resources of national strength and greatness, but we are yet among the nations in a state of minority—a minor must solicit favors, he cannot challenge them. Did we go to the Emperor of Morocco, or to the Dey of Algiers, and challenge a passage for our ships up the Mediterranean? No; but we solicited, and pay dear for that passage; or did we go to the King of Spain, and demand a free navigation of the Mississippi? No; but we negotiated, and success has attended that negotiation; or could we have gone to the King of England, and challenged a participation with his subjects in the commerce of the East and West Indies? Certainly we could not. What then should we have done? Would it have been best to have traded with them upon sufferance, and so to have maintained a precarious kind of commerce? Certainly this would not have done, for in that case we should have been constantly dependent upon the caprice of a capricious Court; this would be extremely mortifying indeed. Commerce, like all other kind of business, ought to be carried on upon generous and open principles, otherwise we establish a system of deceit that would be favorable to pirates and freebooters.
Under those circumstances what could we have done? We could not have carved for ourselves, for our strength and greatness were not sufficient; we therefore had to go with the modesty of a minor, and to solicit; and what was the natural consequence of this solicitation? Why, at the first interview with the British Minister, he determined to exact of us at least a complete fulfilment of all that a former Treaty required; and what was that? It was a payment of our bona fide debts; what could we do? He produced our contract, and we said nothing; moral rectitude required a fulfilment of this: it was in vain to say, you have interrupted our commerce, you have carried off our negroes, you have retained the Western posts, and thereby occasioned an expensive and bloody war with the Indians. Some of this language, perhaps, would have had weight with the British Minister, if he had been acting in his private capacity, but he felt and acted like the Minister of a great and powerful nation; interest and glory are their objects, and moral considerations are too apt to vanish before these. It is true, by the law of nature, commerce ought to be free and uninterrupted, but by the law of nations it is otherwise; and what nation shall gainsay this law? We certainly cannot, our strength and greatness are not yet fully ripe; and if they were, we should, in practice, deny this law of nature, and should ratify and confirm this law of nations. Thus, Mr. Chairman, we see that interest and force govern among the nations. I have made these preliminary observations in order that we might contemplate the Treaty upon its true ground, for a want of reciprocity has been a heavy charge brought against it.
I have read this Treaty with care and attention, and I am free to own that upon the first perusal of it I had a prejudice against it; it appeared to me that some of its stipulations were too favorable for Britain, and too disadvantageous to ourselves; but we certainly had an able negotiator, and I verily believe he did his utmost to serve his country; the more I have attended to the subject, the more I am reconciled to it. I find the gentlemen who are interested in commerce are almost universally satisfied with the commercial regulations; but there is a more weighty charge brought against it than of a want of reciprocity; it is even said by some to be unconstitutional. This is a heavy charge indeed, and if it is well founded we ought to prevent its operation, for we are sent here as the guardians of the rights of our fellow-citizens, and for that purpose are sworn to support their constitution; if it is unconstitutional, it is a nullity; it is not binding upon the nation; we ought to reject it; but if it is constitutional, and not extremely pernicious, it becomes the supreme law of the land, and we are in that case bound to obey it.
When Mr. Lyman had taken his seat,
Mr. Swanwick addressed the Chair:—One of the most characteristic and strong points of difference that exists between republican and despotic forms of government, said Mr. S., consists in their greater or lesser degree of haste in making or adopting laws. Where the will of a despot is the only law, his simple volition is sufficient to call for the prompt obedience of the subject; but in our happy government, the numerous checks and balances it prescribes every where oppose themselves to haste, to error, or inadvertency, in the formation of laws. In acts of the smallest importance, we see daily that after they have undergone every possible chance of fair and impartial discussion in the House, they are transmitted to another, who equally proceed to revise, correct, and amend them; and even this not being deemed sufficient to secure, as it were, against all possibility of danger, they are sent to the President, who has ten days to consider, and who may return them with his objections. These we are bound respectfully to inscribe on our journals; and if we disagree in opinion with the President, the majority of two-thirds of both branches is requisite to give validity to the law. Do not we discover in all this infinite caution, and a wish rather not to act at all, by the difference of the branches among each other, than to act imprudently or precipitantly; and can we imagine that a constitution thus guarded with respect to laws of little consequence, hath left without a check the immense power of making Treaties, embracing, as in the instrument before us, all our greatest interests, whether they may be of territory, of agriculture, commerce, navigation, or manufacture, and this for an indefinite length of time? No. By one of the guards of that constitution relative to appropriations of money, this Treaty hath, in the last stage of its progress, come before us; we have resolved according to our best judgment of the constitution, and, as we have seen above, according to the meaning and spirit of it, that we have a right to judge of the expediency or inexpediency of carrying it into effect. This will depend on its merits; and this is the discussion now before us. If, in the event, we shall be found to differ in opinion with the other branches as to this subject, it will involve no more animosity or crimination against them than if we differed as to an ordinary law. To what purpose then to sound the alarm, and to ring the tocsin from Georgia to New Hampshire? Do we impeach the Executive? Do we charge bribery or corruption? No, sir.
These preliminary remarks I have thought essential, previously to going into a consideration of the merits of the Treaty itself, which hath already been so ably considered by the gentleman last up from Virginia, (Mr. Madison,) whose mildness of manner and suavity of address were certainly calculated to inspire any thing else than the angry passions so greatly deprecated by the gentleman from Massachusetts, (Mr. S. Lyman.) These, I hope, will be carefully avoided on all sides, and the debate be concluded with the same good temper and moderation in which it is begun.
I must confess, Mr. Chairman, that the first point of view in which this Treaty struck me with surprise was, the attitude Great Britain assumes in it of dictating laws and usages of reception and conduct different towards us, in every different parcel of her empire, while the surface of our country is entirely laid open to her in one general and advantageous point of admission. In Europe, we are told we may freely enter her ports. In the West Indies, we were to sail in canoes of seventy tons burden. In the East Indies we are not to settle or reside without leave of the local government. In the seaports of Canada and Nova Scotia, we are not to be admitted at all; while all our rivers and countries are opened without the least reserve; yet surely our all was as dear to us as the all of any other nation, and not to have been parted with but on equivalent terms.
But let us consider the articles distinctly:—first, as to the Mississippi; Great Britain is admitted as freely to navigate on this river, and to frequent the ports on its banks, as we are to go to those on the Thames; yet, it is strange to remark, that, at the time we made the stipulation, we had not ourselves obtained the right we gave. We have since obtained it by Treaty with Spain, and on terms absolutely contradictory to those contained in the British Treaty.