Mr. Rutledge should not be opposed to the second reading and reference of this memorial, if he thought the strong censure they deserved would be the report of a committee. This censure, he thought, this body of men ought to have; a set of men who attempt to seduce the servants of gentlemen travelling to the seat of Government, who were incessantly importuning Congress to interfere in a business with which the constitution had said they had no concern. If he was sure this conduct would be reprobated, he would cheerfully vote for a reference of the present petition; but not believing this would be the case, he should be for its laying on the table, or under the table, that they might not only have done with the business for to-day, but finally. At a time when some nations were witnesses of the most barbarous and horrid scenes, these petitioners are endeavoring to incite a class of persons to the commission of similar enormities. He thought the matter of the greatest importance, and that the reference ought by no means to be made.
Mr. Swanwick was sorry to see so much heat produced by the introduction of this petition. He himself could see no reason why the petition should not be dealt with in the ordinary way. If the petitioners asked for any thing which it was not in the power of the House to grant, it would be of course refused; but this was no reason why their petition should not be treated with ordinary respect. In this memorial, he said, sundry things were complained of; not only slavery, but several other grievances. For instance, play-houses were complained of, whether justly or not, he was not about to decide. With respect to the grievance mentioned in North Carolina, something perhaps might be done to remedy it, without affecting the property which gentlemen seemed so much alarmed about. He could not suppose there was a disposition in the House to violate the property of any man; there was certainly as strong a disposition in the Middle States as in the Southern, to hold inviolable the right of property; nor could he see any reasonable ground for throwing this petition under the table. If these people were wrong in their understanding of this subject, it would be best to appoint a committee to set them right.
Mr. Gallatin said it was the practice of the House, whenever a memorial was presented, to have it read a first and a second time, and then to commit it, unless it were expressed in such indecent terms as to induce the House to reject it, or upon a subject upon which petitions had been lately rejected by a large majority of the House. In no other case were petitions rejected without examination and without discussion. He said, without examination and without discussion, because it was impossible, upon a single reading of a petition, to be able to form a sound judgment upon it. Indeed, seeing the way in which the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Rutledge) had treated the subject, no cool examination could be expected at present; in the moment of passion it would be best not to decide, but to send the petition to a committee. What was the objection to this mode of proceeding? It was that the subject would shake a certain kind of property. How so? A petition that reminds us of the fate of certain blacks in this country, which did not refer to slaves, but to free men. This petition was to shake property! In the same manner it might be said that the law of Pennsylvania for the gradual abolition of slavery had also a tendency to destroy that property; or that the Legislative decision of the State of Massachusetts that there shall be no slaves under their Government, would have that effect. But it was said the characters of the petitioners was such as they ought to brand with the mark of disapprobation.
In support of this charge, it was alleged that they were not satisfied with petitioning, but they attempted to debauch and seduce servants—to rob gentlemen of their property. He did not know to what the gentleman who made this assertion alluded; but he believed, if the matter was fairly stated, whatever may have been done in the State of Pennsylvania, has been no more than an endeavor to carry into full effect the laws of the State, which say, that "all men are free when they set their foot within the State," excepting only the servants of Members of Congress.[25] As to the moral character of this body of people, though a number of their principles were different from those which he professed, he believed it could not be said, with truth, that they were friends to any kind of disorder; and he was surprised to hear gentlemen suppose that they could or would do any thing which would throw into disorder any part of the Union. On the contrary, he believed them to be good friends of order. Mr. G. said he wished to have avoided a discussion of the merits of the memorial; but when they were told it was improper to do any thing on the subject, it became necessary. He knew it was in their power to do something. They might lay a duty of ten dollars a head on the importation of slaves; he knew a memorial had been presented at a former session respecting the kidnapping of negroes, which had been favorably reported upon. Finally, the present memorial did not apply only to the blacks, but to other objects. With respect to plays, they had a motion last session before them for laying a tax upon them, which had a reference to the subject. By committing this memorial, they should give no decision. If the committee reported they could do nothing in the business, and the House agreed to the report, the matter would be closed in a much more respectful way than by throwing the petition under the table.
Mr. Sewall said, the gentleman last up had stated two cases in which petitions had been received without a commitment. He might have added a third, more applicable to the present memorial. This was when a petition was upon matter over which this House had no cognizance, especially if it were of such a nature as to excite disagreeable sensations in one part of the House, who were concerned in property which was already held under circumstances sufficiently disagreeable. In such cases, they ought at once to reject the memorial, as it would be misspending time to commit it. If, for instance, a petition should be presented, complaining that a person had refused to discharge an obligation to another, it would be at once acknowledged that the House could not enforce the obligation; but application must be made to a court of justice. So in this case; the petitioners complain of a law of North Carolina. This House, he said, could not change that law. If any thing was done there contrary to right, the courts of that State, as well as those of the United States, were open to afford redress. It was their business, and not the business of that House. They did not come there to act upon subjects agreeable to their feelings, but upon such as the constitution had placed in their hands.
Mr. Macon said, there was not a gentleman in North Carolina who did not wish there were no blacks in the country. It was a misfortune—he considered it as a curse; but there was no way of getting rid of them. Instead of peace-makers, he looked upon the Quakers as war-makers, as they were continually endeavoring in the Southern States to stir up insurrections amongst the negroes.[26] It was unconstitutional, he said, in these men to desire the House to do what they had no power to do; as well might they ask the President of the United States to come and take the Speaker's chair. There was a law in North Carolina, he said, which forbade any person from holding either a black or white person as a slave after he had been set at liberty. The one hundred and thirty-four negroes alluded to in the petition, he knew nothing of. In the war, he said, the Quakers in their State were generally Tories. They began to set free their negroes, when the State passed a law that they should not set them free. If these people were dissatisfied with the law, they had nothing to do but transport their negroes into Pennsylvania, where, the gentleman from that State had told them, they would be immediately free. This subject had already been before the House, but they declined doing any thing in it. It was extraordinary that these people should come, session after session, with their petitions on this subject. They had put play-houses into their memorial; but they had nothing to do with them. In this State, he believed, the Legislature had passed a law authorizing them. It was altogether a matter of State policy. The whole petition was, indeed, unnecessary. The only object seemed to be to sow dissension. A petition could not come there touching any subject on which they had power to act, which he should not be in favor of committing; but this thing being wrong in itself, it was needless to commit it, as no single purpose could be answered by it.
Mr. Isaac Parker was of opinion with the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. Gallatin,) with respect to the disposal of petitions. But it appeared to him that the subject matter of all petitions should be within the view and authority of the House; if not, to refer them would certainly be a waste of time. He had attended to the petition, and he did not think there was a single object upon which it was in their power to act. Nothing was prayed for. The petitioners speak of the slave trade, and, in general terms, of the immorality of the times, as injurious to the state of society; and wish some means may be taken to prevent the growth of them. To refer a petition of this sort, therefore, to a committee would answer no purpose. He did not think they were more obliged to take up the business than if they had read the address in a newspaper.
Mr. Bayard said it might be inferred, from the anxiety and warmth of gentlemen, that the question before them was, whether slavery should or should not be abolished. The present was, however, very remote from such a question, as it was merely whether a memorial should be read a second time. The contents of this memorial, he said, were right or wrong, reasonable or unreasonable; if right, it was proper it should go to a committee; and if wrong, if so clearly absurd as it had been represented, where would be the evil of a reference for a report thereon? He did not like things to be decided in the moment of passion, but from the fullest consideration. In some countries they knew persons accused of crimes were condemned without a hearing; but there could be but one sentiment as to the injustice of such a proceeding. There could be no objection, therefore, upon general principles, to the reference of this petition. But it was said it was not to be sent, because of the general habits of this society. He believed there was no body of men more respectable; they were obedient, and contributed cheerfully to the support of Government; and, either politically or civilly speaking, as few crimes could be imputed to that body as to any other.
This memorial, he said, had been treated as coming from an Abolition Society—it was a memorial of the General Meeting of the people called Quakers; and if only out of respect to that body, it ought to be referred. But it was said it did not contain matter upon which the House could act. Gentlemen seemed not to have attended to the subject-matter of the petition. He did not believe that the House had the power to manumit slaves, but he believed there was not a word in the petition which had a reference to slavery. The petitioners state, indeed, that a number of negroes, not slaves, for negroes may be free, had been taken again into slavery, after they had been freed by their masters. He wished to know whether the House had not jurisdiction over this matter? He was warranted by the constitution in saying they had, because that instrument says that no State shall make ex post facto laws. It belonged to that House, therefore, to see that the constitution was respected, as it could not be expected from the justice of the individual States, that they would repeal such laws. It rested, therefore, with the Government of the United States to do it. Mr. B. read the clause of the constitution touching this matter, and concluded by reminding the House that this was not an ultimate decision, but merely a reference.
Mr. Josiah Parker said he was always inclined to lend a favorable ear to petitioners of every kind, but when a memorial was presented to the House contrary to the nature of the government, he should consent to its lying on the table or under it. No one, he said, could say they had a right to legislate respecting the proceedings of any individual State; they, therefore, had no power to decide on the conduct of the citizens of North Carolina in the matter complained of. Petitions had frequently come from Quakers and others on the subject; whereas this Government had nothing to do with negro slavery, except that they might lay a tax upon the importation of slaves. He recollected, when the subject was brought before the House in the first Congress held at New York, wishing to put a stop to the slave trade as much as possible, being a friend of liberty, he took every step in his power, and brought forward a proposition for laying a tax of ten dollars upon every slave imported. It was not agreed to; but there was only one State (Georgia) in which the importation of slaves was admitted. Since the establishment of this Government, Mr. P. said, the situation of slaves was much ameliorated, and any interference now might have the effect to make their masters more severe. He knew of no part of the constitution which gave them power over horse-racing and cock-fighting, nor could they interfere with respect to play-houses; and where they had no right to legislate, they had no right to speak at all. As the session had begun harmoniously, he hoped that harmony would not be broken in upon by such applications as the present. Mr. P. produced a precedent from the journals of 1792, where a memorial of Warner Mifflin, a Quaker, after being read, was ordered to lie on the table, and two days afterwards returned to the memorialist.