Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 2 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Mr. Sprigg said, the resolution which he had proposed had not been the work of a moment, and he did not feel disposed to make the alterations proposed.

Mr. Otis added, then he should propose to strike out the words "resort to," and insert "declare," as he was of opinion with the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. Sitgreaves,) that the only subjects fit for discussion were active measures, and that it was not regular to declare when they would not do a thing.

Mr. Pinckney was desirous of settling this motion by the previous question; but he was informed by the Chair that such a motion would not be in order in a Committee of the Whole.

Mr. Dayton (the Speaker) said, that he hoped his friend from Massachusetts would withdraw the motion he had just offered, in order to make room for one he had to offer, which would render the first resolution more general, more innocent, and yet equally or more efficacious, and would test the sincerity of the advocates of that resolution as to their professed anxiety for the maintenance of peace. Upon Mr. Otis withdrawing his motion, Mr. D. moved to strike out the words "against the French Republic" and declared that although he deemed the whole resolution unnecessary, and considered it as not naturally growing out of the President's Message, which did not call upon us to declare or make war, yet as it must be the intention of the mover, or of some other member to follow it up with like declarations in relation to all other nations with whom the United States had any intercourse, provided they acted consistently, he thought it better to make the resolution a general one, even if it should be afterwards negatived. He, for himself, was as ready to say that, under existing circumstances, it was as expedient for the United States to go to war with any other nation as with the French Republic. He saw no reason why that particular power should be singled out in the manner proposed; and as he was for cultivating peace, not with one only, but with all the nations of the world, he was willing so to declare his disposition, if any declaration was proper on the occasion. It was also to be observed, that it could not with propriety be objected against the amendment that there was no other nation with whom we were in danger of entering into hostility, for the tables of the House had been loaded with communications relative to the encroachments and unreasonable demands of another country, which had occasioned an apprehension that the United States would be driven to the necessity of a war in order to obtain possession of its own territory. If, therefore, gentlemen were anxious to cultivate harmony with the French only, then the resolution as first moved, was proper for their adoption; but if the preservation of peace with all was their real object, then he trusted that the amendment could not with propriety be rejected by those gentlemen who had introduced and advocated a proposition the utility of which, under any modification, he owned for himself, he could not discern, although he was willing to render it as unexceptionable as possible before it was decided upon.

Mr. Sprigg informed the gentleman from New Jersey that the reason why the French Republic was inserted in the resolution was because it was founded on the Message of the President, which related solely to the French Republic. For his part, he was not desirous of war with any power on earth.

Mr. Harper seconded the motion of the gentleman from New Jersey, because he thought it would be better in that shape. He had no particular objection to the resolution as proposed, only that he thought it a resolution about nothing; but as it might gratify the mover and some others, he should not object to it. He was not himself disposed for war, but for peace, while peace could be preserved. But he never said, and would not say, that war was the worst thing which could happen to this country; he thought submission to the aggressions of a foreign power infinitely worse. If gentlemen meant by agreeing to this resolution, to prevent the country from being put into a state of defence; if they meant by it to effect an entering wedge to submission, he trusted they would find themselves mistaken; for though he believed the true interest of the country lay in peace, yet he was not disposed to recede from any measures which he thought proper through fear of war. Or did gentlemen intend, by this question of peace or war, to enlist the popular prejudices in favor of peace, in order to prevent proper measures being taken for the defence of the country? If this was their view he should be the first to strip off the disguise. He trusted that this was not the case, as he saw it connected with another resolution which proposed the taking of measures for the defence of the country. The question at present, said Mr. H., is not a question of war, but of defence; and no two questions are more distinct. If gentlemen confound these two questions, and are determined to take no measures of defence lest they should lead to war, let them say so. He believed, however, the distinction was well understood by the American people.

Mr. Giles believed this the proper time to declare whether the country should remain in peace or go to war. He thought the resolution proper as it stood, because founded on the Message of the President, in which the French Republic is only named. There was a part of that Message, he said, which, in his opinion, amounted to a declaration of war. The President tells the House, "that the situation of things is materially changed since he issued his order to prevent the arming of merchant vessels." As far as he understood the situation of the United States at that time, it was a state of neutrality. If that state is changed, and the present is not a state of neutrality, he wished to know what is. He knew only of two states, a state of neutrality and a state of war; he knew of no mongrel state between them. Therefore, if the President of the United States, could declare war, we are now in war. Believing, however, that Congress had alone the power to declare war, he thought it time to declare what the state of the nation is. He did not know whether the object might not be answered by the resolution being general, as he was and always had been (notwithstanding insinuations to the contrary) against war with any nation upon the earth. He looked upon it as the greatest calamity which could befal any nation; and whatever may be the phantoms raised in perspective of national honor and glory in such a state, they will, in the end, all prove fallacious. He believed no nation ought to go to war except when attacked; and this kind of war he should be as ready to meet as any one. Mr. G. said, gentlemen were continually speaking of the degraded state of the nation, when their own measures had led to it. (Mr. Harper denied that he had ever said the nation was in a degraded state.) Mr. G. was not sure that he had said it, but he believed he had frequently heard it. He believed we were in a state which required the utmost vigor; but he thought every measure should be avoided which might involve the country in war. For if we were to go to war with the French at present, he knew not what ever could take place which could produce peace; it must be a war of extermination. Mr. G. did not know that the present question was very important; but believing it strictly conformable to the Message of the President, he should be in favor of it as it stood, and against the amendment.

Mr. Nicholas considered this amendment as defeating the resolution. Was there nothing, he asked, which called for a declaration of the kind proposed? Was it not clear to every one that the country was going fast into a state of war, and (in the words of Mr. Sitgreaves) was it not to be expected? Ought not the Legislature then, (who alone have the power of declaring war,) to determine the state of the country, and say whether they mean to go immediately to war or not? He thought the necessity of the resolution was sufficiently evident, by the motion which had been made to change the words from "resort to war," to declare war; in the one case the mischief was met, whilst the other meant nothing. And if gentlemen were ready to say we were not prepared to declare war, and at the same were not ready to say it is not expedient to resort to war, it proved that they thought war might be made without being declared. He asked whether gentlemen did not believe the Executive had taken measures which would lead to war? And that if he were at liberty to act upon a change of circumstances between this country and others, Congress were not brought into a situation in which they had no choice? Many discussions had heretofore taken place on the constitution, but he had never heard it doubted that Congress had the power over the progress of what led to war, as well as the power of declaring war; but if the President could take the measures which he had taken, with respect to arming merchant vessels, he, and not Congress, had the power of making war. He asked whether, when report went so far as to speak of an alliance, offensive and defensive, with a foreign country, it was not time to come to a declaration on the subject? Suppose such an alliance was formed, would it not be said that Congress are bound to carry it into effect? He knew it would, though he should resist the doctrine. Mr. N. said, he should be as unwilling to submit to any foreign country as the gentleman from South Carolina; but he could not, like that gentleman, say he was not afraid of war. I am, said he, afraid of it. This country affords me all the happiness I can wish or hope for, and I know war will be destructive to it. What was the difference between himself and that gentleman in this respect, he could not tell; it was to him surprising that any gentleman should be without fear as to the mischiefs of war. He was of opinion that the step taken by the President, with respect to merchant vessels, went to declare that we rested our cause on arms, which was not calculated to produce any good effect in our favor. He hoped the amendment would not be agreed to; if it was, he should vote against the resolution itself; and he did not think the gentleman from New Jersey, when he read the Message of the President, could think there was as much danger of a war with any other country as with the French Republic.

Mr. Brooks agreed with the gentleman who brought forward this resolution, so far as it declares we are not prepared to resort to war. He believed no nation or man who had common understanding could be fond of war. The people of this country have yet the recollection of the fatal effects of the late war. But there are two kinds of war, offensive and defensive. He wished gentlemen to distinguish between them; for though he was ready to declare against offensive war, and to submit to small injuries rather than make defensive war; yet he was not willing to say he should not be ready to defend his country against the attack of any foreign power whatever. He hoped he should be believed in this declaration, as he had formerly been employed in the defence of it; and if gentlemen meant that though foreign nations attempt to invade our territory, and to reduce us again to the colonies of a foreign power, they would not repel them, he could not join them in opinion. And though he should vote for the resolution as moved to be amended, he should feel himself at perfect liberty to defend his country in case of attack. He wondered the gentleman from Virginia should object to vote for the resolution, because it was general, as it included the French Republic as well as all other nations.

Mr. Rutledge trusted the sentiments which the gentleman from New York had expressed would govern the committee, and that all were ready to say, that though we value the blessings of peace, yet we are ready to resist insult and injury from whatever quarter they come. He hoped this would be the conduct of this country; and notwithstanding much had been heard about British parties and French parties, that all would unite in this determination. This being his opinion, he should vote for the amendment; and he hoped gentlemen would be satisfied with this declaration, and that no more would be heard of a party in the House in favor of war. Though he meant to vote for the resolution, he thought it unnecessary; but in these days of jealousy and suspicion, if he were not to vote for it, he should expect to be told he was in favor of war.