He believed, as he had already stated, that this bill, as it now stands, will authorize the President to negotiate with the subordinate agents of a Government against the will of that Government, and thereby promote a separation between the agent and his Government, by holding out a temptation to do certain acts not warranted by the Government. The House had been told, by two gentlemen from Massachusetts, that this cannot be the operation of the law, because it has no relation to a revolted colony; that when a revolt once takes place, the trade will open of itself, as the territory will no longer be under the authority of France. He wished to inquire into the truth of this doctrine, which one gentleman has asserted and another has endeavored to prove. Mr. N. asked if Toussaint should to-morrow declare himself independent, would the President be authorized to direct the collector of the customs to consider St. Domingo as no longer coming under the present law? In his own opinion, he could not, because it would be contrary to the practice of any other Government; and, if done, would give the lie to all the professions made by us on subjects of this kind. When the separation merely commences; when we know nothing of the means which the revolters possess, but because some person chooses to declare a place independent, shall our Government interfere and acknowledge such a place independent? He asked whether any gentlemen in this House, who are so frequently called disorganizers, had ever broached a doctrine like this? He knew very well, without the authority of Vattel, which the gentleman from Massachusetts had introduced, that any nation is at liberty to take part in a rebellion; but it is a good cause of war. When a revolution is effected, then the country revolting becomes independent, and any nation may treat with it according to its will. But, if you take part with the revolters, you place yourselves on the same ground with them in respect to the Government revolted against. And, said he, in case we give any assistance to any island belonging to France, in its revolt against that Government, we place ourselves in a state of war.
Mr. N. believed gentlemen are wrong in their construction of the present law, when they say if Toussaint were to declare himself independent to-morrow, that the Executive might immediately consider him so, and direct trade to be carried on with that island as heretofore. He believed the President would not do it, and that the present clause of this bill is founded upon the certainty that he would not. If this is the case, the same objection is in full force against the wording of this section. The gentleman from Massachusetts, first up, seems to acknowledge that this law is to have this operation. He, says, St. Domingo may become independent, and that therefore it is highly proper we should let them know what dependence they may have upon us; to let them know that they may expect all the advantages of independence. Is not this, said Mr. N., an acknowledgment of the effect which this law will have? That the moment they throw off the French yoke, they will receive all the assistance from this country which a free commerce can give them? Mr. N. thought the gentleman himself inflicted the deepest wound on this bill, for gentlemen cannot say that such an assurance is not a temptation to commit the act.
Mr. N. could readily believe that the trade of St. Domingo is very valuable to this country, and the assertion of the gentleman from Maryland, that it is a "mine of gold," had confirmed that opinion; and he was really afraid that that gentleman's representing a commercial part of the country, and being himself deeply engaged in commerce, the importance of this trade may have too much weight in deciding a question of this kind, and be a means of disregarding the evils which may arise from it; but Mr. N. was of opinion, that a solid peace would be far more beneficial to commerce generally, than any temporary advantage of this kind. Besides, the principle upon which such advantages would be built, is something similar to that which would actuate a man to fall upon the property of his neighbor, because he is richer than himself.
But does not the same gentleman tell the House that the powers in St. Domingo are pretty equally balanced between General Toussaint and Rigaud, and that, therefore, if Toussaint attempted to establish the independence of the island, there could be no certainty of his success? Why, then, said Mr. N., should we go into a measure which might produce war between the two countries, when the advantage to be derived from it is so very doubtful? And he thought the danger from the proceeding was heightened by the circumstance which gentlemen have mentioned of there being so very large a body of people in arms there; for, since the powers are so nicely balanced, is it not probable that the government party, in case of a struggle, would have the advantage? And would it not be the height of madness for us to run the risk of having the large force of that island turned against us, in consequence of our improper interference between the colony and its government?
Mr. N. said, he could not overlook some considerations connected with this subject, which he thought of great importance. It is well known, (and he begged gentlemen who have the same desire to preserve the country in peace that he had, to pause at the suggestion,) that there are many gentlemen in this House who have been long in favor of coming to an open declaration of war against France; and he had every reason to believe that the same disposition yet exists in these gentlemen; but the same opportunity of making this declaration does not now exist. The public mind is not now so well prepared for entering upon a war as it was some time ago, because they believe things wear a better appearance. If then, said Mr. N., the same disposition exists for war; if these gentlemen think they or their country will be benefited by war, they may be very willing that France should declare it; and if it be possible that a wish of this sort may exist, it affords a full solution to the meaning of this bill.
But we are told, said Mr. N., that we ought not to excite the animosity of the people of St. Domingo. Is our present situation calculated to produce this effect? Certainly not, since they are necessarily involved with the mother country; and to take the part proposed, he had already shown might be attended with the most direful consequences. He thought this country ought not to wish for the independence of St. Domingo in another point of view. However we may wish to see the naval power of France put down, so that they may not have it in their power, if they have the wish, to invade this country, it is highly important to us that the naval power of Europe should be divided. He did not think that it could be for the interest of this country that Great Britain should have a navy which should keep the world in awe, and subject it to her views; and if we assist in destroying the colonies of France, we shall be the means of throwing them and their naval power into the hands of Great Britain. He did not know that it mattered much to us whether St. Domingo was a colony of France or England, only as it would add to the naval strength of England. He hoped, therefore, the motion for striking out would prevail.
Mr. Pinckney observed, that so much had already been said on this subject, and the general principles of the bill had been so ably defended, that it would be unnecessary to make more than one or two remarks in reply to the gentleman from Virginia. That gentleman had gone altogether upon the idea of this bill being of so obnoxious a nature to the Government of France, that it must be considered by that government as a cause of war. He thought it had already been shown, that the gentleman was altogether mistaken; and, very unhappily for his position, our own experience was sufficient to determine whether it has ever been considered as a cause of war for neutral countries to trade with colonies revolting from a mother country. We know, said he, very well how neutral nations conducted towards us in our revolt from the Government of Great Britain. Mr. P. believed it was never understood that any nation with whom we traded was, in consequence, involved in war with Great Britain. The fact was otherwise. It was never so looked upon by that country, and gentlemen will admit that that Government was at least hightoned enough. All that Great Britain did was to seize the vessels whenever she could lay hold of them; and this is the risk which the gentleman from Maryland mentioned our traders would run in carrying commerce into any place in a state of revolution. It is well known that we endeavored, during the whole course of our war, to draw foreign commerce to this country, which was found necessary in order to enable us to carry on the war. Agents were employed for this purpose, and we saw no moral turpitude in this. And during the time that Holland was separated from the dominion of Spain, was war declared in consequence of any nation trading with Holland? The case was so different, he recollected that Holland declared, that she would seize all vessels going to Spain, though that had heretofore been considered as the mother country. This was reversing the case.
With respect to the three points stated generally by the Secretary of State, they are not said to go to the point for which the gentleman from Virginia has taken them. With regard to the douceur of £50,000, Mr. P. would say, that if we believe this attempt to have been made to extort this sum of money from our Envoys, for corrupt purposes, (and notwithstanding all that has been said on the subject, he did believe that X and Y were the agents of the French Government in that transaction, and which has, indeed, been acknowledged by Y, Mr. Bellamy, of Hamburg, who declares he has never written or said any thing to our Envoys, but by the direction of the Secretary of Foreign Affairs,) no reliance ought to be placed upon any of their declarations; for after such an act, it may be supposed they will say one thing at one time and another at another; and no reliance could be had upon any thing which comes from so corrupt a source.
Mr. P. said he would not trouble the committee longer, except in one point, and that was as to the consequences which might flow from a declaration of independence on the part of St. Domingo. He should endeavor to answer the gentleman from Pennsylvania as to the consequences which it might produce to the Southern States. It was a subject to which he had paid all the attention in his power. He did, on all questions, endeavor as much as possible to divest himself of any thing like party spirit; but in this case, where he had himself so much at stake, in which his native country and every thing dear to him was concerned, his sincerity could not be doubted. Mr. P. did not himself believe that this bill would have the least tendency to procure the independence of St. Domingo; but as some gentlemen think it is probable that this may be the result, and as no one could say with certainty what the effect of any measure would be, he had considered the subject, and was clearly of opinion, that should the independence of that island take place, the event would be more advantageous to the Southern States, than if it remained under the dominion of France, considering the disposition which France has evinced towards us, (and of which he saw no prospects of a change,) and the present conduct of the inhabitants of St. Domingo. Nothing which we can do, said Mr. P., can bring back the internal state of that island to the state it was formerly in. Considering the inhabitants, then, in the light of freemen, whether will it be better for us, in the Southern States, to have to deal with them, as such, or under the direction of the French Government, unreasonable and arbitrary as we have found it? He had no hesitation in saying, that, it would be more for the safety of the Southern States, to have that island independent, than under the Government of France, either in time of peace or war. If our dispute with France should not be accommodated, and they keep possession of St. Domingo, they could invade this country only from that quarter. There is there a large body of troops, and their unofficial agents told our Envoys, that in case we did not submit to their conditions, we might expect an attack from that quarter. It would certainly lessen the danger from that island, were it to be separated from France; but remaining in the hands of France, and supported by the powerful navy of France, notwithstanding all the vigor we have shown on the ocean, we might be very much annoyed from thence.
If these people in St. Domingo find that we withhold from them supplies which are necessary for their subsistence, said Mr. P., though they are friendly disposed towards us, they will look elsewhere for support; they must either turn their attention to cultivating their land, look to Great Britain, or become freebooters. Which situation is it most for the interest of the United States that they should be in? Surely the peaceful cultivation of the ground; and to induce them to take this course, it will be our interest to supply them with what they have occasion for, lest they should get the habit of freebooters, and make our commerce the object of their plunder. He hoped, therefore, the motion for striking out would not prevail.