Mr. Bidwell.—It appears to me that all the objections which have been urged against the amendment under consideration, may be reduced to two. 1. That a forfeiture is necessary to deprive the importers of every motive to introduce any slaves into the country, and thus render the prohibition completely effectual. 2. That if the slaves are emancipated and turned loose in the Southern States, they will be a destructive nuisance to the people of those States. Neither of these objections is, in my apprehension, well founded. If the motion to strike out prevails, another amendment may be made, declaring that the importer has no right to the slaves, which he introduces. This will be a declaration conformable to the state of things, and in exact accordance with the laws of nature and of nations. It is not in order to offer an amendment now, but if the present motion prevails, I design to propose an amendment to this effect. This will answer the purpose completely, and remove from the importer every temptation to engage in this traffic. The idea of forfeiture proceeds wholly on a false principle. It implies that the importer has a right to the slaves. But an amendment like that which I have suggested will declare the fact as it is; it will be conformable to truth. But if the section passes as it now is, with the clause of forfeiture retained, we recognize in our statute book a false principle, which neither the constitution nor the laws of the United States have ever authorized, to wit: that a property may be had in human beings. The constitution and laws have always left the disposition of slaves to the States, and hitherto have never recognized the principle of slavery.
But if we do not forfeit the negroes, the question is asked again and again, with an air of triumph, what is to be done with them? For my part I had rather strike out the section, and do nothing at all, than retain the forfeiture. If we do nothing we shall not increase the evil. They will then be left to the States to dispose of according to the State laws. This will not increase the evil. I am, however, willing to agree to any practicable mode of disposing of them. But at any rate, I am for striking out the forfeiture, and opposed to disgracing our statute book with a recognition of the principle of slavery.
Mr. Quincy.—Since there is so general an agreement as to the end, I wish it were possible we could unite more perfectly as to the means. Those in favor of forfeiture are anxious for nothing so much as to prohibit totally the importation of slaves. Indeed, it is for this very reason they are in favor of it, because they assert, and to my mind on unquestionable ground, that this is your only effectual means of prohibition. They are also anxious that if they are brought they should not be made slaves in their part of the country. As to their being made free in the Southern States, that is out of the question. The policy of those States, the first duty of self-preservation, forbid it.
The argument of my colleague is, “forfeiture implies a right, vested in importers. Now it is disgraceful to the United States to admit such an implication. The importer has no right. He could acquire none. These persons are free by the law of nature—as free as any of us. The African prince who sold them was a usurper. The purchasers in Africa were trespassers against the law of nature. They cannot acquire any right of property in these persons, and it is shameful for the United States, by forfeiture, to admit it.” Sir, the conclusions of the gentleman are perfectly correct—his principles are solid. No man in this House denies either. Refer this question between the African prince and his subjects, and between the African and his importer, to five hundred juries in New England, and five hundred times a verdict would coincide with the principles and reasonings of my colleague. But the misfortune is, that, notwithstanding all these true and unquestionable principles, the African prince, at this day, does, and, after our law passes, will sell his subjects. To all practical purposes, a title is acquired in them, and they are passed, like other property, from one to another, in their native country. But this is not the worst. A title in this description of persons is not only allowed in Africa, but is, and must be, after your law passes, in a large section of your own country. The gentlemen from that part of the United States tell you that they cannot be allowed to be free among them. The first law, self-preservation, forbids it.
Now this is that real, practical state of things to which I invite gentlemen to look, and on which they ought to legislate.
I ask concerning it, how ought we to reason? What is our duty?
First. Do all you can to prohibit. Next, if you fail in this—if, in spite of your laws and their penalties, this description of persons be brought into the United States, then place yourselves in such a situation as may enable you best to meliorate the condition of this unhappy class of men, consistent with self-preservation, and with the deep stake which an important section of the country has in the policy which you adopt.
On both accounts forfeit. First, because it is the best means of prohibition. The gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Early) declares it is the only means by which you can do it effectually. The argument he used on this point, on a former day, is to my mind conclusive. From the situation of the Southern States, particularly Georgia, you can only prevent the traffic by taking away the inducement to purchase. And this can only be done by making the right of every purchaser be forfeited as a penalty. Next, if contrary to your laws they be imported, they are thrown on the humanity of the United States. They are brought here by our citizens, and it is the duty of the National Government to reserve the control of them, so as to be certain that the best is done for the amelioration of their condition that our own safety permits. On this account, forfeit. It is only as a commercial regulation that the National Government can get this control. If we do not take that title in these persons into the United States, which the laws of some States recognize, in those States they are slaves—they must be slaves. Those States can never permit them to be any thing else. This can only be done by forfeiture. The character of your policy will depend upon what you do with them after the forfeiture. Gentlemen reason as if those persons were inevitably to be sold under the hammer. Certainly this is not the necessary consequence. Are they not after forfeiture at your control? May you not do with them what is best for human beings in that condition in which these miserable creatures are, when they first arrive in this country, naked, helpless, ignorant of our language, our climate, our laws, our character, and our manners? Are you afraid to trust the National Government, and yet, by refusing to forfeit, will you throw them under the control of the States, all of whom may, and some of them will, and must, make them slaves?
But the great objection to forfeiture is, “it admits a title.” I answer, first, this does not necessarily follow. All the effect of forfeiture is, that whatever title can be acquired in the cargo shall be vested in the United States. If the argument of the gentleman be correct, and the species of cargo be such as that, from the nature of the thing, no title can be acquired in it, then nothing can vest in the United States; and the only operation of forfeiture is to divest the importer’s color of title by the appropriate commercial term—perhaps the only term we can use effectual to this purpose, and which does not interfere with the rights of the States. Grant that these persons have all the rights of man; will not these rights be as valid against the United States as against the importer; and by taking all color of title out of the importer, do we not place the United States in the best possible situation to give efficiency to the rights of man, in respect to the persons so imported?
But, next, let us agree that forfeiture does admit a species of title, lost on one side and acquired on the other; such as we cannot prevent being recognized in those States where these importations will most frequently take place; I ask, which is best, and which most humane? Admit a title, gain it for the United States, and then make these miserable creatures free, under such circumstances, and in such time, as their condition into which they are forced permits, or deny the possibility of acquiring a title, and leave them to be slaves? But my colleague (Mr. Bidwell) has a sovereign specific for this. He says, “We do not make them slaves, we only leave them to the laws of the respective States.” But I ask, if the laws of all the States may, and those of some of the States do, and necessarily will make them slaves, “by leaving them to the operation of the laws of these States,” do we not as absolutely make them slaves as though we voted them to be such in this House? To my mind, when we have the power, if we fail to secure to ourselves the means of giving them their freedom, under proper modifications, we have an agency in making them slaves. To me it seems that the amendment proposed, striking out the forfeiture, will defeat the very end its advocates have in view. Really, sir, I fear it will happen to the honorable mover of the amendment (Mr. Bidwell) as it happened to another celebrated asserter of African rights—I mean the renowned Knight of La Mancha. We all recollect that while that worthy knight was, with all the real honesty in the world, descanting on the moral fitness of things on the eternal, unalienable, imprescriptible rights of man!—that during all that time he was exercising himself and instructing others on these themes—the very persons he had undertaken to deliver—the great African Princess Micomicona, Queen of the great African Kingdom Micomicon, with her father, her mother, her brothers, her sisters, in short her whole family, were left in absolute and irretrievable slavery; their fetters not knocked off, nor their shackles lightened, nor one ray of light thrown in upon their prison. And yet the good knight, with all possible self-complacency, astride of his theories, was couching his lance, scouring the plain, the mirror of philanthropic chivalry, the very cream of the milk of human kindness!