Mr. Pitkin, in reply to Mr. Fisk, observed, that he had compared the estimates of a frigate and gunboats, from which he inferred that the equipment and annual expense of a frigate of 44 guns, compared to that of gunboats, was as eighteen to one.
Mr. Elliot said, that if the opinion of the President should be complied with, there would be one hundred and twenty-nine gunboats built, which in actual service would transcend the expense of the Navy of the United States, and would cost more than a million of dollars. Mr. E. said he considered the reproach cast upon those who were formerly the advocates of gunboats, as strong evidence of their inutility. Gunboats had been lately thought much of; what was the result? That gunboats might be considered as a kind of vessel guarding a little deposit of national spirit, if any there was left to put on board: but as soon as they were assailed by the wind or waves, their maiden purity was gone. They were of no use whenever there was wind or tide, and could only float in a time of profound tranquillity.
Mr. Alston said he possessed little information with regard to the advantages or disadvantages that were likely to flow from building the number of gunboats that was proposed. He merely rose to ask the attention of gentlemen to the grounds taken at the last session. The building of gunboats had been instituted on the recommendation of the President made at the last session. Gentlemen would there find the reasons on which that system had been begun. They were not intended to be set afloat on the ocean, to commit depredation or attack vessels at sea, but as an aid and support to our fortifications, and to prevent an enemy from annoying our seaports. It was, he believed, the opinion of the House at the last session, that gunboats constituted the best system that could be devised for this purpose.
Mr. Early moved to postpone the further consideration of the resolution until this day week.
Mr. Lloyd said he should have no objection to the postponement, if he knew any mode of obtaining the information desired. It appeared that the committee had applied to the Secretary of the Navy, who ought to possess full information on the subject. What was his reply? Waiving altogether the expression of his own opinion, he merely confined himself to stating that the President thinks it expedient to build sixty additional gunboats. Whence, then, were they to get the information that was desired, to enable them to determine whether gunboats are a proper defence for the United States? They might apply to the President or the Secretary of the Navy, and get information from them that they think them necessary. Mr. L., however, said that he was of opinion that they ought to judge on this subject from what had already taken place. For himself he was free to declare that he was opposed to the gunboat system. He had carefully attended to the arguments of gentlemen, and to what did they amount? Have they adduced an argument to show their utility, or produced an instance to show where they have been useful? It has been said that their utility is established by the use made of them against Tripoli. But he would ask whether they would have been of any use if the vessels of Tripoli had left the shore? It was admitted that gunboats were not useful on the ocean. It was evident, then, that they were building a navy for a state of perfect calm; and were gentlemen disposed to expend millions for vessels that would be only useful under such circumstances?
Mr. Mumford.—The gentleman from North Carolina on my right, said that if any gentleman can show us any better mode of defence we shall be glad to hear it, and although I think it incumbent on him to show us the utility of gunboats, I will not detain the House but a few minutes to recommend what I conceive to be a far better mode of defence, I mean solid and durable fortifications that will last for ages, and block-ships similar to the draught now held in my hand, and which any gentleman may examine at his leisure if he chooses. Sir, the experience off Copenhagen is an evidence of their real utility. Witness the engagement with the British fleet and the Crown battery, (somewhat similar to the plan of Montalembert, recommended by me in debate yesterday,) and the block-ships. That fleet was actually silenced, and nothing saved the proud navy of old England on that memorable day but the game of flag of truce played off so successfully by the hero of Trafalgar; and when in order I shall move to adopt those block-ships in place of gunboats.
Mr. Tallmadge said the question before the House had no connection with the defence of New York; it was a proposition for building gunboats. Having been on the select committee that brought in these resolutions, he thought it proper to state that there had not in that committee been a unanimous opinion in favor of gunboats. He was himself entirely hostile to the measure. He saw no necessity for adding to the number already built, or authorized to be erected. They had thirteen gunboats fit for service, and fifty-six would be soon launched. It would seem to him better to comport with the system of economy, in the first instance, to finish and prepare these fifty-six for service. No reason had been assigned for the additional sixty that had been proposed, but the mere opinion of the President. Mr. T. said he did not wish to call in question the high authority attached to the opinion of the President, but he would wish to know whether any naval officer had recommended gunboats as a proper defence for the country. He did believe there were some particular circumstances under which they would be useful, and under this impression he had hitherto voted. But when he saw nothing but gunboats called for, he was placed under the necessity of refusing to grant a single dollar. It appeared as if they were contemplated to be relied on as the exclusive defence of the United States, and as if it were intended to let the frigates rot. He was opposed to the postponement, as he did not see the probability of obtaining any useful information not already before the House.
The question was then taken on postponing the consideration of the resolution until Monday, which was carried—yeas 69.