Mr Madison thought it wd obviate difficulty if the present resol: were postponed, & the 8th taken up, which is to fix the right of suffrage in the 2d branch.
Docr Williamson professed himself a friend to such a system as would secure the existence of the State Govts. The happiness of the people depended on it. He was at a loss to give his vote as to the Senate untill he knew the number of its members. In order to ascertain this, he moved to insert these words after "2d branch of the Natl Legislature"—"who shall bear such proportion to the no of the 1st branch as 1 to ——." He was not seconded.
Mr Mason. It has been agreed on all hands that an efficient Govt is necessary that to render it such it ought to have the faculty of self defence, that to render its different branches effectual each of them ought to have the same power of self defence. He did not wonder that such an agreement should have prevailed in these points. He only wondered that there should be any disagreement about the necessity of allowing the State Govts the same self-defence. If they are to be preserved as he conceived to be essential, they certainly ought to have this power. And the only mode left of giving it to them, was by allowing them to appoint the 2d branch of the Natl Legislature.
Mr Butler observing that we were put to difficulties at every step by the uncertainty whether an equality or a ratio of representation wd prevail finally in the 2d branch, moved to postpone the 4th Resol: & to proceed to the Resol: on that point. Mr Madison seconded him.
On the question
Massts no. Cont no. N. Y. ay. N. J. no. Pa no, Del. no. Md no. Va ay. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
On a question to postpone the 4 and take up the 7 Resol: ays, Maryd Va N. C. S. C. Geo;—Noes, Mass. Ct N. Y. N. J. Pa Del:
On the question to agree "that the members of the 2d branch be chosen by the indivl Legislatures" Massts ay. Cont ay. N. Y. ay. N. J. ay. Pa no. Del. ay. Md ay. Va no. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.[108]
[ [108] Madison's Note:
It must be kept in view that the largest States particularly Pennsylvania & Virginia always considered the choice of the 2d Branch by the State Legislatures as opposed to a proportional representation to which they were attached as a fundamental principle of just Government. The smaller States who had opposite views, were reinforced by the members from the large States most anxious to secure the importance of the State Governments.