"To receive fixt stipends by which they may be compensated for their services" considered.
General Pinkney proposed "that no Salary should be allowed." As this (the Senatorial) branch was meant to represent the wealth of the Country, it ought to be composed of persons of wealth; and if no allowance was to be made the wealthy alone would undertake the service. He moved to strike out the clause.
Doctr Franklin seconded the motion. He wished the Convention to stand fair with the people. There were in it a number of young men who would probably be of the Senate. If lucrative appointments should be recommended we might be chargeable with having carved out places for ourselves. On the question,—Masts Connecticut[111] Pa Md S. Carolina ay. N. Y. N. J. Del. Virga N. C. Geo. no.
[ [111] Quer. whether Connecticut should not be, no, & Delaware, ay.—Madison's Note.
Mr Williamson moved to change the expression into these words to wit "to receive a compensation for the devotion of their time to the public service." The motion was seconded by Mr Elseworth, and agreed to by all the States except S. Carola. It seemed to be meant only to get rid of the word "fixt" and leave greater room for modifying the provision on this point.
Mr Elseworth moved to strike out "to be paid out of the Natl Treasury" and insert "to be paid by their respective States." If the Senate was meant to strengthen the Govt it ought to have the confidence of the States. The States will have an interest in keeping up a representation, and will make such provision for supporting the members as will ensure their attendance.
Mr Madison considered this as a departure from a fundamental principle, and subverting the end intended by allowing the Senate a duration of 6 years. They would if this motion should be agreed to, hold their places during pleasure; during the pleasure of the State Legislatures. One great end of the institution was, that being a firm, wise and impartial body, it might not only give stability to the Genl Govt in its operations on individuals, but hold an even balance among different States. The motion would make the Senate like Congress, the mere Agents & Advocates of State interests & views, instead of being the impartial umpires & Guardians of justice and the general Good. Congs had lately by the establishment of a board with full powers to decide on the mutual claims between the U. States & the individual States, fairly acknowledged themselves to be unfit for discharging this part of the business referred to them by the Confederation.
Mr Dayton[112] considered the payment of the Senate by the States as fatal to their independence, he was decided for paying them out of the Natl Treasury.
[ [112] "Cap. Dayton is a young Gentleman of talents, with ambition to exert them. He possesses a good education and some reading; he speaks well, and seems desirous of improving himself in Oratory. There is an impetuosity in his temper that is injurious to him; but there is an honest rectitude about him that makes him a valuable Member of Society, and secures to him the esteem of all good Men. He is about 30 years old, served with me a Brother Aid to General Sullivan in the Western Expedition of '79."—Pierce's Notes, Am. Hist. Rev., iii., 328.
On the question for payment of the Senate to be left to the States as moved by Mr Elseworth.