Mr Langdon was agst payment by the States. There would be some difficulty in fixing the sum; but it would be unjust to oblige the distant States to bear the expence of their members in travelling to and from the Seat of Govt.
Mr Madison. If the H. of Reps is to be chosen biennially–and the Senate to be constantly dependent on the Legislatures which are chosen annually, he could not see any chance for that stability in the Genl Govt the want of which was a principal evil in the State Govts. His fear was that the organization of the Govt supposing the Senate to be really independt for six years, would not effect our purpose. It was nothing more than a combination of the peculiarities of two of the State Govts which separately had been found insufficient. The Senate was formed on the model of that of Maryld. The Revisionary check, on that of N. York. What the effect of a union of these provisions might be, could not be foreseen. The enlargement of the sphere of the Government was indeed a circumstance which he thought would be favorable as he had on several occasions undertaken to show. He was however for fixing at least two extremes not to be exceeded by the Natl Legislre in the payment of themselves.
Mr Gerry. There are difficulties on both sides. The observation of Mr Butler has weight in it. On the other side, the State Legislatures may turn out the Senators by reducing their salaries. Such things have been practised.
Col. Mason. It has not yet been noticed that the clause as it now stands makes the House of Represents also dependent on the State Legislatures: so that both houses will be made the instruments of the politics of the States whatever they may be.
Mr Broom could see no danger in trusting the Genl Legislature with the payment of themselves. The State Legislatures had this power, and no complaint had been made of it.
Mr Sherman was not afraid that the Legislature would make their own wages too high; but too low, so that men ever so fit could not serve unless they were at the same time rich. He thought the best plan would be to fix a moderate allowance to be paid out of the Natl Treasy and let the States make such additions as they might judge fit. He moved that 5 dollars per day be the sum, any further emoluments to be added by the States.
Mr Carrol had been much surprised at seeing this clause in the Report. The dependence of both Houses on the State Legislatures is compleat; especially as the members of the former are eligible to State offices. The States can now say: if you do not comply with our wishes, we will starve you; if you do we will reward you. The new Govt in this form was nothing more than a second edition of Congress in two volumes, instead of one, and perhaps with very few amendments—
Mr Dickenson took it for granted that all were convinced of the necessity of making the Genl Govt independent of the prejudices, passions, and improper views of the State Legislatures. The contrary of This was effected by the section as it stands. On the other hand there were objections agst taking a permanent standard as wheat which had been suggested on a former occasion, as well as against leaving the matter to the pleasure of the Natl Legislature. He proposed that an Act should be passed every 12 years by the Natl Legislre settling the quantum of their wages. If the Genl Govt should be left dependent on the State Legislatures, it would be happy for us if we had never met in this Room.
Mr Elseworth was not unwilling himself to trust the Legislature with authority to regulate their own wages, but well knew that an unlimited discretion for that purpose would produce strong, tho' perhaps not insuperable objections. He thought changes in the value of money, provided for by his motion in the words, "or the present value thereof."
Mr L. Martin. As the Senate is to represent the States, the members of it ought to be paid by the States.