Mr. Altgens. Yes, sir; as a matter of fact—let me go back to my position at Houston and Main. I was at that intersection approximately at 11:30, which meant I had close to an hour wait before the caravan was due in that area, and along about noon—of course, there were some other things that happened—there was a man who had an epileptic fit along about that area there, a young fellow approximately 19 or 20 years old, and I was standing over here at the intersection next to a sergeant's motorcycle—it was a tricycle motorcycle.
Mr. Liebeler. This was the intersection of Main and Houston that you were standing near?
Mr. Altgens. Yes, sir; and the time was approximately 12:15, I would imagine—I say 12:15 and as I relate the events you will see why I say that, because this sergeant at the motorcycle called for an ambulance and an ambulance came and picked the man up and as the ambulance was leaving through the triple overpass, underneath the triple overpass, I saw the Presidential caravan, the red lights and so on that lead the caravan, coming on to Main Street off of Harwood.
Mr. Liebeler. Further up Main Street from where you were standing?
Mr. Altgens. Yes; clear up at the other end of town because Main Street goes uphill and that made it easy for me to spot the red lights indicating the Presidential caravan then was starting down Main Street, and along about the time the sergeant called for the ambulance, I was looking back up here at the triple overpass and I remarked to the sergeant, I said, "Look at all those people up there on the triple overpass." I would estimate about a dozen were up there.
Mr. Liebeler. On the railroad tracks immediately over Elm—immediately over the triple underpass?
Mr. Altgens. Yes, sir; and I said, "I wonder what the heck all those people are doing up there when they wouldn't let me up there to make pictures?" And he said, "Well, I suppose they are railroad people." I said, "Well, if they are permitted up there, it seems like they would let me up there just to make a picture." He said, "Well, you know we've got our orders too." So, I just dropped it at that time, but there were at that time—now, this was prior to the Presidential arrival in the Main-Houston Street area that I noticed these people up here.
Mr. Liebeler. Up on the triple underpass?
Mr. Altgens. Yes; I keep forgetting that we are taking the testimony down here. After the Presidential caravan had proceeded down Elm Street, this was approximately 12:25, then, after the President was shot—the car passed in front of me—I stepped into the curb area and made a picture of the Secret Service man going to the assistance of Mrs. Kennedy. I made a picture at that time which shows part of the triple overpass but it does not show the people up on it.
Mr. Liebeler. Did you notice whether there were still people on it at that time?