Mr. De Mohrenschildt. In politics they agreed more or less. She—they were both somewhat dissatisfied with life in Soviet Russia. I had that impression. They wanted a richer life. And as far as I remember, it was Marina who convinced Oswald to leave Soviet Russia, and go back to the United States.

Mr. Jenner. You have a definite——

Mr. De Mohrenschildt. I have a definite recollection of that. I do not recall in exact words how it was said. But either one of them told me that—that it was Marina who wanted to come to the States, and made him go to the—back to the United States Embassy, and ask for his passport. And I remember very distinctly what he told me, that he illegally took a train from Minsk to Moscow, because being a foreigner, he was not supposed to leave town without notifying the police. He did that illegally, and went to Moscow, and presented himself at the United States Embassy.

Mr. Jenner. Did it come to your attention, or did he ever say to you that—even before he was married, that he had determined to return to the United States, and had taken some steps to do so?

Mr. De Mohrenschildt. No; I don't recall any of that.

Mr. Jenner. Your distinct recollection, however, is that she did tell you that she desired to come to the United States, and she pressed him to do so?

Mr. De Mohrenschildt. Yes; and possibly he was disgusted by that time also, because he was the fellow who needed attention, he was a new fellow in Minsk, a new American, so they were all interested in him. And then they lost interest in him eventually. So he became nothing again. So he got disgusted with it. And Marina told him, "Let's go back to the States, and you take me to the States." Now, what is not clear to me—and I never inquired into it, because I was not particularly interested—how she got the permission from the Soviet Government to leave. That I don't know.

Mr. Jenner. You never discussed that with her?

Mr. De Mohrenschildt. Never discussed that. Somehow I was not interested to ask her that question. I should have, possibly.

Mr. Jenner. Did you ever ask him about it?