Mrs. Paine. Well, I think I don't, and it's my guess that there was a lot more argument and contention between them than what I saw, just judging from what I have heard other people have said about it. I did see them trade barbs or comments and in that sense the answer was "yes" to your question of did they seem willing or out to hurt one another. I can't remember just how you phrased it. They were certainly not proceeding toward a mature relationship though——
Mr. Liebeler. Did Marina ever say anything to you about sexual relations between herself and Oswald?
Mrs. Paine. Yes.
Mr. Liebeler. Have you testified about that previously?
Mrs. Paine. No.
Mr. Liebeler. Would you care to tell us?
Mrs. Paine. I will say this, that it is part of what convinced me that she was interested in helping the relationship. We talked about going to Planned Parenthood to get contraceptive information there 6 weeks after the birth of Rachel, that is, we were to go then for that. It must have been myself that suggested that she discuss with one of the counselors there her feelings about their sexual relationship.
Mr. Liebeler. Did she tell you her feelings about the sexual relationship?
Mrs. Paine. Well, I think I'll answer that simply—I don't think—let me say that I feel that the exposure of her private life has been considerable and should be limited to what is pertinent, and I think what is pertinent is whether she thought she would stay with him or not, and whether she planned to try to.
Mr. Liebeler. Other witnesses have testified to us that Marina said in front of Oswald and in front of them that Oswald was not a satisfactory man in terms of sexual relations with her and that she did not obtain satisfaction with him and that he was, as far as she was concerned, much less than a man in his sexual relations with her, and I wonder if she told you some of those things.