Mr. Thornley. Let me put it this way. I think you could sit down and argue with him for a number of years in a great marathon argument and have piles of facts and I don't think you could have changed his mind on that unless you knew why he believed it in the first place. I certainly don't. I don't think with any kind of formal argument you could have shaken that conviction. And that is why I say irrevocable. It was just—never getting back to looking at things from any other way once he had become a Marxist, whenever that was.
Mr. Jenner. Was he able to articulate distinctions between Marxism, communism, capitalism, democracy?
Mr. Thornley. At the time I knew him and argued with him he didn't bother to articulate distinctions between Marxism and communism. At a latter time I understand he did.
Mr. Jenner. He attempted to.
Mr. Thornley. At the time I knew his communism was the modern, living vicar of Marxism, period.
Mr. Jenner. Were you in New Orleans when he was arrested for distributing Fair Play for Cuba Committee leaflets?
Mr. Thornley. I arrived in New Orleans in the early part of September. If I was in New Orleans——
Mr. Thornley. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. This occurred in August of 1963.