Mr. Vaughn. Oh, I'd say just a very few minutes—I don't recall.

Mr. Hubert. When was the second time you saw him?

Mr. Vaughn. The second time was, I believe it was in 1961, and either the last of December or the middle of December.

Mr. Hubert. Tell us about that occasion.

Mr. Vaughn. Well, I had him on a traffic violation—a minor traffic violation.

Mr. Hubert. Did you recognize him as the man you had seen before?

Mr. Vaughn. Not until he told me who he was and I reprimanded him and let him go—didn't even issue him a ticket.

Mr. Hubert. How long did that interview if we can call it that, with Ruby, last?

Mr. Vaughn. I would say at most probably 5 minutes.

Mr. Hubert. When was the third time you saw him, and I think the third time would have been the last time, too?