Captain Talbert. And they said first Main and then before—after I had removed the men from my office to the ramp—not the ramp area, but the parking area and told Sergeant Dean and Sergeant Steele to place them on each intersection to stop traffic for the lights as the people making the transfer approached them. Found then that it was to be Elm Street instead of Main, that it was to be Elm rather than Main and the traffic could go—the reason being that they could swing off of Elm into Houston, directly into the prisoner loading area of the sheriff's office, and those 13 men were placed by Sergeant Steele at each intersection. He didn't have enough. I instructed him that he obtain any additional men he might need from the captain who was in the area of the county jail, and he later called me by phone and told me of the traffic conditions down there, and I had an estimate, I don't recall whether from him or some other officer of the approximate number of people in that area, said around 600 or so gathered up around the county jail; so I instructed Steele to have each one of the men fall in behind or follow fairly closely behind the conveying vehicle so they would be available for any trouble that might develop around the county jail.
Mr. Hubert. Were you ever told by anyone of the plans of the transfer?
Captain Talbert. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. That is, the ultimate plan or the——
Captain Talbert. Well——
Mr. Hubert. Any sequence of plans?
Captain Talbert. After the plans had been instituted, Lieutenant Pierce, who I had sent to the homicide bureau previously to see if we could be of any assistance, or see if he could do anything—I didn't see him enter the basement, but as he pulled up onto the ramp—or in an effort to enter the ramp, he stopped his vehicle and called me over and asked me to get in his car. I opened the door, got in on the right-hand side of his car and he told me my—I omitted something, I believe, about this armored car, haven't I? Do you want that in there?
Mr. Hubert. We'll come back to it.
Captain Talbert. All right. He told me that he had been instructed to take a car out and get in front of the armored car which was backed into the ramp on the Commerce Street side and to lead the armored car. He was to be the lead vehicle and the armored car, it would go up northbound on Central to Elm, west on Elm and swing in off of Elm on to Houston Street. That two plain cars would pull up behind of the armored car. The prisoner would actually be in the last plain car, and the first plain car would be full of armed homicide officers, and it would cut off on Main Street, west. It would leave the city hall with the cavalcade, and when it hit Main Street the two plain cars with the homicide officers in them with the prisoner would make a left and go west and the armored car and the lead vehicle there would continue to Elm and then west. The two vehicles, or rather the two groups of vehicles would be paralleling each other. One on Main, and one on Elm.
Mr. Hubert. Do you know what the plans were with reference to the controlling of traffic on Main Street on which the prisoner was actually going to be transferred?