Mr. Griffin. Was there anything, any experience you had which indicated he had any sexual interest in these dogs?
Mr. Crafard. No; I wouldn’t say so.
Mr. Griffin. Did you ever see him try to sexually stimulate these dogs?
Mr. Crafard. Not that I ever saw.
Mr. Griffin. Did you ever hear anything in that regard?
Mr. Crafard. No.
Mr. Hubert. Now the example you gave us about Ruby putting the man out at the club is the only one that you ever perceived as an act of physical violence?
Mr. Crafard. Where he actually used physical violence. I have seen him where he was close to it at another M.C. at one time. Threatened for him to go out or he would throw him out, which was something which occurred every 2 or 3 months with other M.C.’s.
Mr. Hubert. Were there any occasions when you say that Jack handled a situation that could have involved violence but did not?
Mr. Crafard. Well, the situation where he told that M.C. to get out. It could have really involved violence, Jack’s just; he was about ready to grab the guy, and he just turned and walked away from him.